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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: The Minister has given a potted history of this project going on for almost a decade now. Does he accept the reason for the delay has nothing to do with those of us who have had serious concerns about this project and, rather, has everything to do with the fact that successive Governments and four successive Ministers have not been able to bring this deal across the line in a way that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Sorry, perhaps the Minister can just give me----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: It is not the fault of people who have been raising concerns. Does the Minister accept that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: -----a "Yes" or "No" in answer to that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Fine. It is a result of Government failure to bring the project across the line. I do not want to get back into this issue of ownership and leasing. I think most people would see those as being very different things. However, I will ask about a claim the Minister has made repeatedly in relation to the State owning the hospital and whether it stands up to any kind of scrutiny. I put it to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Just on the building then, what I just read out and what is in the first schedule is very different from what the Minister is claiming.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I am not talking about the site.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I am talking about the building.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: That is not my understanding, or the understanding of many others who are much more qualified than I am, of that first schedule. Will Mr. O'Donoghue facilitate the committee by sending us a legal note on that particular schedule?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: On this specific question, I am asking the Minister because the explanation given for that particular phrase being used was that it is to clarify that it is only maternity-related services, not services such as cardiology, and yet the fact sheet talks about services such as dermatology, which is referenced, and potentially others. That explanation does not then stand up to scrutiny.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: With all due respect, I am asking the Minister about this because the Minister has been giving that explanation for that phrase. Is the Minister saying now there will be dermatology services in the new national maternity hospital?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Then the Minister's explanation does not stack up. Would they be public or private-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Sorry, Minister, would they be public or private dermatology services, or both?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Sorry, I am nearly out of time. If Mr. O'Donoghue does not mind, I want to stick with the Minister. Does the Minister accept then that that explanation does not really stand up if other types of services will be provided in the hospital building?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: No, no, sorry.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: Chair, can we keep to-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I will quote Professor Higgins who has described this as the need for "future-proofing". The Taoiseach is saying something else. The Minister is saying something else. It is easy to list the services that will be provided and to qualify that by saying, "but not limited to", which would future-proof the provision of services. We are told that the HSE insisted on including this phrase in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: With all due respect, all that matters is what is in the legal document.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (11 May 2022)

Róisín Shortall: I am talking about the building.

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