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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have looked through the list of reports and some of them are minor and specific. There is a reason for this. I know some have been done on section 38 and section 39 organisations. Is this a big step up in terms of internal audit or was it always the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does the Comptroller and Auditor General have access to all of these 150 reports?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: This is an improvement. We sought the quarterly risk register from the HSE on previous occasions. When the CervicalCheck issue hit the street, so to speak, after the court case 14 months ago, the issue did not appear to be on the risk register. The former CEO said he was not aware of the issue until he saw a report of the court case on television either on the day of the meeting or the...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I agree with that. Has there been any change in developing the risk register?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will make one suggestion. The HSE should look at the position in health service organisations overseas, whether it is the UK, France, Canada or wherever. We have our own mentality and perhaps we need another perspective on it. It is only a suggestion.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good. I was thrown by the figure of €5 million for legal advice listed on page 164 of the financial statements. On the next page, it states that the fees for legal proceedings was €15.7 million and settlements amounted to €2.83 million. Will somebody please explain the figure for settlements of €2.83 million versus the figure for fees associated with...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: In the ICT area.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: How much did that cost the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: What I do not understand, and Mr. Mulvany will have to send information on it, is that the figure for settlements is €2.8 and the figure for fees for legal proceedings is five times that figure. There must be something else in there that I do not understand. Someone will have to break down those figures for us. Some of it may be for tribunals. We need a breakdown of the figures.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: We ask the witnesses to give us a breakdown of the legal fees by category and the amount of the legal fees that relates to the settlements. We would like to see the ratio of legal fees versus the actual settlements because the figure is running very high. I ask for a breakdown of the figure by type. As Mr. Mulvany said, commercial disputes may have accounted for some of the costs. To go...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. Also on page 165, under legal settlements, it states that additional legal costs and settlements were paid by the HSE insurance company. Is the HSE not self-insured? What is that about?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is this about insurance costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: In other words, the HSE carries insurance.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is not carrying the cost.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: How much is the HSE's bill for insurance? Ms Dolan can send a note on that to the committee. There are different categories, for example, buildings.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I do not expect everyone to know everything.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: On what page is that?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: For insurance.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: The HSE is spending €6 million on insurance.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. We will be sent a breakdown of the figures for the other categories. Page 195 of the accounts lists a patient income figure of €406 million. Patient charges, inpatient charges and emergency department charges are listed. There are also road accident charges. I presume this is money the HSE can recoup from insurance companies. What are the long-stay charges?

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