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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Cuirim fáilte go dtí an coiste roimh an Uasal O'Keeffe agus a chomhghleacaithe. The public is well aware that it had to rescue AIB with €21 billion pumped into it. The public is also aware of the inappropriate actions taking place within the bank that led to a record fine last year of €83 million. In the past couple of days - I am not asking the witnesses to talk...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: One of the things they asked the committee to do was to write to AIB requesting information on how many debts above 90% have been cancelled. In other words, how many people outside of bankruptcy and insolvency had more than 90% of their loan written off. In fairness to AIB, it has provided this information. Over 90% of a loan is a sizeable amount. Mr. O'Keeffe told us it involves about...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Most of them are over that level.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: AIB is here for that particular reason. The public is demanding to know the special arrangements it is worried about that may be in AIB. It is a fair question. The bank is still mainly owned by the State. Are the majority of loans that are being written off by 90% above €1 million? I suspect they are.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Can Mr. O'Keeffe give us the figure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Will AIB provide the committee with the information on how many of those 1,900 loans that were written off to the value of over 90% were above €1 million?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. Mr. O'Keeffe said that when AIB enters into arrangements, people must enter into them with honesty and good faith, which I accept. He said that AIB decides on the write off based on a set number of criteria, including what he said was the individual maintaining a reasonable and benchmarked lifestyle. Is that the same lifestyle for all of us?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So to clarify, we will not find a situation where the guidelines of the Insolvency Service of Ireland, which has benchmarked lifestyle cost-of-living reasonable expenses, are not applied in all of AIB's agreements.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is it not the case that there are special conditions in that benchmark? The special conditions could be that you could be caring for an elderly parent in your house or you could be a very vulnerable person with a rare disease or in an end-of-life situation. How does AIB ensure that the information provided to it to allow for those special conditions, which mean that AIB allows the person a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I have made many representations to AIB in the past. I have represented people whose houses were being repossessed who were at the end stage of cancer. We reached out to AIB and in fairness, AIB might have paused in terms of sending letters at certain points in time. A property search is easy enough if you are able to determine an asset but for individuals who have come to me or other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Let us look at windfalls. Does a windfall clause operate for a set period for all debt settlements?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: So it is the same period for every single one. What is that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: It applies based on somebody getting a windfall such as money won on the horses, won the lotto, inherited money or received a loan from somebody, that money is AIB's. Is that the way it works?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The clause lasts for five years. What happens after the five years if the bank became aware that somebody did win the lotto, won money on the horses or came into a windfall but did not disclose it to the bank after the end of the clause date? Is there recourse in relation to that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I am talking about a case where, during that period, the borrower won the lotto, won money on the horses, inherited from an uncle or whomever but did not disclose it to AIB.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: After the clause period is over.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That would be because it is a contract and it would be a breach of contract.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: In relation to debt settlement arrangements that AIB has made, has that ever been an issue? Do people try to hide windfalls?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Debt Write-down and Debt Resolution Policies: Allied Irish Banks (2 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I have one final question, which is very personal to me in terms of the community I represent. It is an issue that I hear about all the time. Many people who do not live in Donegal think the issue with mica is over. In the last number of weeks, we have seen bulldozers come in and tumble houses and family homes. People are away renting in different communities as a result. There are still...

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