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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: It is a silly answer to say "It is not a "Yes" or a "No"". It is a yes-no answer. Do we have any idea of what the final costs will be? That is a yes-no answer, in fairness.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: No I am not. I am asking Mr. Barry a question. We have said that we have no way of estimating what the claims will be between now and the end of the build. Mr. Barry agreed that there was no way of estimating those claims.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: The question is, if we have no way of estimating what the claims will be then how can we possibly have any idea what the final costs will be? Is that a "Yes" or a "No" to my question?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: I think it is fair to say-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Mr. Barry cannot say what the final cost will be. It stands to reason.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: So Mr. Barry has no idea what the final cost will be. If the witness has, then he should say it. This is why I ask the question. Unless he tells us otherwise we can presume that he has no idea what the final cost will be.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: No. Does Mr. Barry have any idea what the final cost will be?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Whatever you are having on top. With that response, it is fair to say that the €1.7 billion is aspirational rather than a reality. At the committee last week, Mr. Barry said that some contractors tend to approach claims differently. Some make claims that can be managed and substantiated, hence 50% of claims are done while another 50% are not done. Mr. Barry said that other...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Is there anyone here from board who was there at the time?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Nobody? They are all gone.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Perhaps they may be able to answer. It is no secret that BAM has a history of overspend in other countries and not just in this country. Given the type of procurement and it being the first time it was used, I assumed this would have been looked into and researched in the context of cost control and overruns.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: For the members of the committee who were there at that time there was the infamous Ballyfermot leisure centre and the Port of Cork project. It would have been pretty obvious. I wonder what oversight was given to that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Given what he has said, and that this procurement model had never been used before, would Mr. Barry have imagined that this sort of history - which was out there in the public domain - would have been taken into account given the scale of the project, the costs involved and what we have seen to date?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Would there ever have been a prevention from doing that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: It was not done anyway. Maybe it was a bit slack.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: That is why we are where we are, I suppose.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Mr. Devine was involved at that stage. Irrespective of what has been said in the past few minutes, was he aware of BAM's record in respect of overruns?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Was the rest of the board aware of that? Did Mr. Devine inform the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: Is this not amazing, though? I refer to what was said about past performance in the private sector. Whoever said it laughed straight away. Of course past performance comes into it, but not in the public sector. My next question is about delays. Last week in the health committee Mr. Barry gave the impression that there were fairly minor delays with the build, but when he was pressed...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Imelda Munster: When Mr. Barry refers to the delays and the setback in time, what kind of delay is he talking about?

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