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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is an overrun of a couple of hundred per cent. Could Mr. Gloster give us a figure on that in a few moments? What is the longest term that the HSE has agency staff filling a post for?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: What would Ms Hoey describe as short term?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I have witnessed agency staff filling in for three years. There is one person who is in their seventh year in position in admin. I would need to check with them again. Certainly, last year was the person's sixth year in the same position, which has never been advertised as far as I know. Somebody who applied to panels when they come up is still on the agency system. If people's work is...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is one of the reasons I am asking Mr. Gloster that, because it is more expensive. We know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: She wants to convert. She will be happy to convert in this case anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Gloster is not able to give me a figure for the longest-serving agency staff member. It needs to be looked at in the HSE. A number of people come in as "attendants". That is the word that used to be used for it. There is another term now.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Multi-task attendants. I thank Mr. Gloster. There are a number of those. A friend of mine was in such a position in mental health services for just over three years before the position was brought into the HSE. That person was happy in both positions but it seemed long term.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: In some cases, people in the HSE will say there is a reason for this and it is not a reason in the HSE or public's interest. Does the HSE do checks on whether there are connections between the people who own and run the agencies and middle management in the HSE? Can this consistently be manipulated so that people are deliberately left in agency positions for long periods because it is in...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Sometimes it is raised. I am not in a position to say yes or no. It is raised from time to time. Is it being manipulated a bit?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think it is an area that needs to be watched because obviously there is a big spend on this.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: On homecare or home help as it used to be referred to, I understand that the HSE sometimes has to use agencies to fill gaps, but there is a problem with recruitment.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: The agencies are having a huge difficulty. Homecare positions are not being filled. Middle management in CHO 8 told us last year that they were trying to increase the number of advertised posts. Again, it is costing more to employ them through the agencies because I know the figures we received last year. Is work being done to try to bring in a larger cohort of directly employed homecare...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the target? I think it is a 40:60 ratio, with about 40% being HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is with the not-for-profit ones?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Some of them do good work.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is not what happened. It has not always translated into higher pay.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is about 40% HSE provided and 20% voluntary. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the breakdown of for-profit and voluntary?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be about two thirds to one third?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive: Financial Statements 2023 (5 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Can that work with the ETBs be accelerated? If we are going to help more elderly people stay within their own home, which is more cost effective and is generally what people want, there is no other way of doing this. We simply have to increase the number of people who have a level of training as home care workers to cater for people and provide that service. It is absolutely vital. The...

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