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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: The expenditure is within profile. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am asking the Department and the HSE to liaise with the State Claims Agency. We want both organisations here to talk about this topic next week. That is the type of information we want. Some of the information is in the Department and some is in the State Claims Agency. In advance of the meeting next week we will have the full facts.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good. We will tease it out in more detail next day. Talk to me about the cross-border directive. How many claims were paid out in 2018? What was the value of what we paid out under the cross-border initiative?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is the ballpark figure? Have you any idea? I do not see it. It does not hop out from the accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will you send that to the committee? The scheme has really taken off in recent years.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Many people would say that it is a shame and that we should be able to do some of that work in our hospitals in our State. There is not one Deputy who does not recommend this to people. If a person needs a hip operation but is told that the waiting time is 18 months, he can go to Belfast and get it done in a shorter period. Why not? That is provided the person had the wherewithal or, more...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: No, this is where people go up to the North to get teeth done or a hip operation. It is a different scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Any citizen in the EU is entitled to medical treatment in another EU state. The home state reimburses the other state for doing the job.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Treatment abroad is a separate scheme. Please send it on as soon as you can. We passed legislation in the Dáil earlier this year in the event of Brexit. How does it work in that case? Is that scheme gone if Brexit occurs? What is the outcome for this scheme on 31 October if Brexit happens? It does not matter whether it is hard or soft or whether there is a deal or a no-deal...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am not talking about no-deal. Go on.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is happening between Belfast and Dublin for sick children with cardiac problems? Is that a different scheme?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will have a mutual agreement with them.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is important because some people might have been concerned that it could have happened. It has been covered in the stand-by legislation that we passed earlier in March. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is important to know. It is no harm to get the figures on how many are involved in any event.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is up and down. We are familiar with it. Talk to me briefly about one thing that is totally confusing for every member of the public. I am referring to the different regions the HSE operates. There are community healthcare organisation regions, hospital regions and hospital group regions. It is utterly confusing. It makes no sense. Who is going to do something about that? Does it...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Are there any immediate plans to change it?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will the witnesses confirm that the opening deficit carried forward from the previous year is spread over the next year? There tends to be as assumption that the charge hits on 1 January but, as I understand it, it is spread out over the 12 months. It is absorbed over a period. There was reference to a first quarter opening deficit figure of €140 million or €150 million. Am...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Mulvany saying it will all be absorbed by June?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is an obvious question all Oireachtas Members will ask the witnesses, which concerns the Supplementary Estimate of €655 million for 2018. What would have happened to the delivery of health services if that additional funding had not been given? Is it the case that the provision of those services had been predicated heretofore on the assumption of receipt of a large...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Ms Mulvihill for the clarifications. As I said, we only heard about it last week. This committee submitted a recommendation previously that the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform should engage with the Departments that consistently have a pattern of requiring substantial Supplementary Estimates. The response we had from the Minister last week mentioned the oversight...

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