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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: I thank the Governor. I would remind members that we hope to conclude by 12.30 p.m.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: I want to ask about repossessions and the information held on these various issues. Does the Central Bank have up-to-date information relative to each of the banks on the number of repossessions?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Is it up-to-date? From when does it date?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: The officials can provide that to us. They know the number of repossessions of each bank. He knows how many-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Without naming the banks, figures could be given by way of stating bank A had so many, bank B had so many and bank C had so many.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: No, I am asking about each bank. I do not want Mr. Sibley to name the banks. I just want to find out how many banks or vulture funds have repossessed homes. If Mr. Sibley has that information, could he break it down without identifying the banks or vulture funds so we can have an idea of the numbers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Mr. Sibley will be able to give numbers relative to each bank because he has the information. Looking at that information, can he identify customers who have engaged but whose arrangements did not work out, resulting in a repossession? Can he gauge the number of customers whose loans were simply unsustainable?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Does the Central Bank know the number of non-engagers?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: A voluntary surrender is a polite description for repossession.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: I do not think there is any such thing as voluntary surrender.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: In the past various banks sold their portfolio of loans that included loans on homes or principal residences of persons or families. Does the Central Bank have figures on the type of loans that are still within the banks whereby legal action has not been taken, as yet, but are at an advanced stage of legal action?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Yes. Does the Central Bank have those figures?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Do the witnesses get a sense from engaging with the banks that they are stockpiling bad loans like that for sale very shortly? They have loans that are being restructured and failed, loans that are unsustainable or loans that have non-engagers but they have not done anything because they have decided to save themselves the cost of legal fees and are just going to stockpile the loans and now...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Does Mr. Sibley get a sense that the banks are stockpiling bad loans?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: I will outline some numbers from a recent sale in July 2019 where 79% of private dwelling house or PDH loans are not in the litigation process. I refer to a loan portfolio that is being sold. It was out there and has probably been sold by now. In addition, 69% of the loans being offered were at an advanced stage of litigation. In other words, the next step was court. In terms of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Honestly, Mr. Sibley.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: We are going to have to face this. They are not doing that. The banks are pulling the wool over the eyes of the Central Bank. This committee has asked the Central Bank about repossessions and the attitude of banks. The evidence that is contained in the various loan portfolio sales proves that the banks must have obviously stockpiled the bad loans, not spent money on their legal fees,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Why would customers engage with the banks when they are constantly being told that there is no fear of vulture funds and that everything is okay? Commentators, some of whom are poorly informed, claim they are easier to deal with than the banks and that they offer solutions. Yet there is no evidence to suggest that vulture funds are nice and cuddly and will do deals with people. They are a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: There is no evidence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank: Discussion (5 Dec 2019)

John McGuinness: Since April 2019, the Central Bank has been regulating the vulture funds.

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