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Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: At this stage, everyone has had a first opportunity. We will adjourn for a period. Voting is in half an hour or 40 minutes. I propose we take a break now and resume after the conclusion of the voting, at 2.30 p.m. Depending on the vote, we might need an extra few minutes. We will resume at 2.30 p.m. or as near as we can. I will ask the secretariat to send a text to the members of the...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I apologise for the long delay but voting in the Dáil is outside our control and we must be present. We will resume our consideration of the appropriation account for 2017 with respect to the Department of Health, the HSE financial statements for 2018 and chapter 16 of the Comptroller and Auditor General report, relating to the control of private patient activity in acute hospitals.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: One moment. A phone is buzzing in the system and it is interfering with the recording. Can we check if a phone has been put on silent? They must be on airplane mode.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will pull up the Deputy if there is repetition.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: How are the witnesses getting on with the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Not the income.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: No, it is 100% included.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have a few questions as Chairman. An issue was highlighted by the Comptroller and Auditor General a couple of weeks ago about the consultant contract settlement, which he noted in his audit report, and I thank the witnesses for attending this meeting, which has been moved forward, to address it. The witnesses have dealt with the Department's perspective on it. How many consultants were...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: They were test cases. Rather than those ten, how many submitted claims?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Breslin to send us a note on it. I know it applies to all of them. I believe that because the 2008 contract was not being implemented and court cases were being taken, not all consultants who were involved signed up to the court cases. Where do they stand in this settlement?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I submitted it as a result of this.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am talking that through because I think a number of consultants in that case will be coming onto the new pay rates under the 2008 contracts. Given that they are pre-2008 consultants, they are some of the most experienced consultants in some of the hospitals. They took the view that the 2008 agreement was not being honoured and so they did not sign up to it. Now that it is being honoured,...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does Mr. Breslin get the point I am making?

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That was the essence of my parliamentary question.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Some of the more experience consultants, who did not sign up to this, have the pay rates for signing on to the 2008 agreement now at this stage, and they feel they are going to be disadvantaged.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am talking about the fairness of it.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: They are not looking to gain an exorbitant salary, but they feel they are much more experienced than those who came after them, who did sign up and are now on a much higher salary with less responsibility.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Can the witnesses send the committee a note on the details of the contract? They may know it off by heart, but for the people here who are not from the HSE or the Department of Health, it is hard to keep up with it all. I ask him to send us an information note on it. There are pre-2008 contracts as well, which are working their way out of the system, but give I ask for an explanatory note...

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is a table in the report but it is hard to follow.

Public Accounts Committee: Health Service Executive Financial Statements 2018
2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Department of Health
Chapter 16 - Control of Private Patient Activity in Acute Public Hospitals
(27 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That court case came up in May and was running for quite a few years. I do not have a copy of the directive the Minister issued, so I ask the witnesses to send one. We know the outcome of the directive, though I do not know its format. When was the last new directive like this issued, prior to this? There have been directives about pensions and State claims which are ongoing, but when was...

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