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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: The Minister said so at the start of the meeting.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: What are the Minister mean by "manage demand"? Did he mean increase demand?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: What are the Minister mean by "manage demand"?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I will move on to a less contentious issue. It concerns electronic versus paper records. I talked to someone involved in trying to retrieve a record. It was a 400-page document and the answer the person received was that a charge would cover the cost of finding, retrieving and printing a 400-page document. Someone else had seen that the official in question had the document in electronic...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I think this is a mistake and a missed opportunity. Some measures in the Bill are very welcome but are undermined by what the Minister is doing with the fees regime.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Minister. The first issue is cost, which comprises two separate aspects. The first is an issue of principle which says that as one is availing of a public service, it is reasonable that one contributes to the cost of or pays for the service. I contend that such a measure amounts to double taxation because we will already have paid for the service through taxes. One would not...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, TASC.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: It is unacceptable to propose a fee structure for a service such as freedom of information without knowing how much money will be generated or how much its administration will cost.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Really?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I suggest that the Minister take the current volume, apply the new fee structure, multiply the first figure by the second one and add. I am not being smart, but one can estimate the projected revenue.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: One can still make an estimate-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: -----just to work out whether it is worth the fee.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Can the Minister give a range of estimates?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: What was the take for last year?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: With respect, I do not believe that is acceptable. It is pretty easy to produce a ballpark figure for the projected revenue from the scheme. One takes the current volume, applies the new fee schedule, makes some sensible assumptions on how the volume will change and comes up with a range. That would mean we would know whether we are talking about €10,000, €100,000 or...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: They might be.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I do not know. With the analytical resources available to the Minister for projections of national finances over the next number of years for taxation purposes, expenditure and all sorts of stuff, the calculation would be a doddle. On the basis that the Minister has no idea how much the provision will cost or whether it will save the State money, and based on the report that says it is...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I do not think it is unreasonable to ask how much money the Minister thinks he is going to get out of a new fees regime and how much it is going to cost to administer the scheme. He may think I am being unreasonable, but I do not think I am badgering him. I think my line of questioning is reasonable.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: No; I have not rejected his answer. I said his answer was unacceptable.

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