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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: In respect of the specific cases.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Has that been the pattern to over-estimate the provision each year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is there a buffer in this €3.15 billion?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: The job of this committee is to be satisfied that the SCA's provisioning is reasonable. The only way to verify that is by comparing the provision made to the costs of the cases settled. I accept that in some years that could be very much over or under, depending on the number of high cost cases that might come in a year. I ask Mr. Breen to give us the figures for the last five years. If...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: No, I want the figure that the SCA had booked in the provision. I am referring to the figure that is now €3.15 billion. It was something like €2.6 billion or €2.8 billion last year. The SCA will have 10,000 cases, or whatever, with a value for each. How often are the cases valued? Is it once a year or is a monthly rolling system? How is it done?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: In other words, some cases could be valued three or four times over its history.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Breen send us a note on that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I ask that because if we only see figures once a year we assume that they are only looked at once a year. It would give us a greater understanding to know that there is an ongoing review.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Breen to send us a note on that issue. I understand but not all of the committee members are here. It would also be beneficial to put that on the record from the point of view of the SCA because this is such a major area for us. I have one last question on a different topic for Mr. O'Kelly. I forgot to ask him about it this morning. He can send us a note. It is in respect of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. O'Kelly might explain to us the market transactions undertaken. There are other funds called the carbon fund for Europe, CFE, and the bio-carbon fund, BioCF. I do not know what those mean. Mr. O'Kelly might send us a note on that. I know that the NTMA has been in the market for some of that recently. I ask that a note be provided on the role of the NTMA in this regard. I know it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, I am happy to take an answer now.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: So countries will pay fines instead of spending money to avoid paying fines.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Rather than having the market-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: There will still be a mechanism for purchasing the statistical transfers.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: We have a note from the line Department saying that in 2017, trades between Luxembourg, Lithuania and Estonia suggested a cost of the order of €22.5 million per percentage point. That was on renewable targets. They were bilateral agreements so that is allowed but there will not be an EU-wide market. Every country will have to do its own negotiations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: The facility will still be there but it will not be a market.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Countries will approach other countries.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: That does not matter to an extent. A country may still have to buy the credits and spend the money.

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