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Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: We are here as the Committee of Public Accounts.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: We have a moral obligation to spend taxpayers' money correctly. We also have a moral obligation in collecting revenue to afford people the protections of the State.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: We do not do that. Mr. Cody is happy, as Chair of the Revenue Commissioners, to add 23% to the misery of people who get involved in addiction. For most people gambling is like drinking. They can go out and enjoy a drink or go off and enjoy the races but for the percentage of people who are addicts and who destroy themselves and their families, Revenue is adding 23% and Revenue does not see...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: We have an illegal activity for which Mr. Cody does not have a breakdown of revenue. We have the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956, which we will discuss later in respect of the national lottery. Mr. Cody does not know what the revenue from e-gaming is. The UK, where the figures are gathered, had revenue of £14 billion from this. Does Mr. Cody know that 60% of profits for online gambling...

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: It is not serious enough to make an informed-----

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Cody did not give me the answer. He is only going to waffle.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Yes, Revenue has not advised Government in any written format that this is not an approach we should be taking.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Cody does not know how much it is.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Cody knew he was coming in here today and he knows I have asked this question.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: E-commerce is not illegal but e-gaming is.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: They are not illegal.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Chair, a distinction must be made and I believe Mr. Cody well understands it. We have criminal activity on which Revenue collects VAT. Mr. Cody is saying that is quite okay because it is done under an EU directive. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does Mr. Cody agree that it is criminal activity?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: The Department of Justice issues a certificate and that is given to those who are providing the illegal activity for the purpose of providing online gambling but they move into e-gaming, which is illegal. I do not hold Mr. Cody accountable for that.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: I am talking about the criminal law. Mr. Cody is an astute individual. Is e-gaming an illegal activity for the purposes of the criminal law?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Therefore, it is illegal, end of story. I will let Mr. Cody answer in a second. He has just said e-gaming is unregulated. Under a moral code, the Revenue Commissioners, who are responsible for gathering funds for the public Exchequer, is taking 23% VAT on a criminal activity.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: As a result, CAB is deployed against it nine times out of ten. We do not apply it to e-gaming organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does Revenue collect VAT on illegal activities in respect of which CAB has responsibility?

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: It does not depend because it is not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2021 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 15 - Collection of VAT on e-Commerce
Chapter 16 - Revenue's Suspension of Periodic Reviews of Tax Clearance Certificates
Chapter 17 - Overstatement of Certain Unallocated Tax Deposits
(8 Dec 2022)

Verona Murphy: I do not want to spend more time on this.

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