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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Are many of them going into second-level education because of precarity?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: So many of them are being lost to the education system completely. It is not the case that because they cannot get careers in third-level education, they are going into second-level education. Many of them are just moving out of education.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Another major issue the committee wants to look at is trying to ensure more women study STEM in secondary school and third-level education. In his statement, Mr. Jones said that 41% of those graduating with a PhD in science, mathematics and computing are women. I was quite surprised by this as I did not think it would be quite as high. Obviously, the figure should be higher. My concern...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I suppose the argument that women are not interested in STEM seems to be completely disputed by the fact that 41% of people with PhDs in science, mathematics and computing are women. Unfortunately, when it gets to higher-level professorial level, that is not being reflected.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I have a few questions for Ms Ní Chéileachair regarding her statement on behalf of the INTO. When someone is teaching primary school students, it is different from teaching secondary school and third-level students. One point she made was that many teachers believe there should be more time devoted to teaching just mathematics as opposed to getting caught up in other science subjects.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: That is a reflection of primary schools' understanding of the importance of mathematics for children going through the system. Is there any issue with the quality of teaching of mathematics? Sometimes the committee can be concerned about the quality of teaching of Irish to primary school teachers. Is there any concern or is Ms Ní Chéileachair satisfied that people-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: In terms of the ASTI, Ms Leydon gave some very interesting statistics. She said that 94% of boys' schools provide biology, chemistry and physics but only 82% of girls' schools do. Is that because, traditionally, girls' schools did not offer these subjects? Why has that not caught up yet, in Ms Leydon's opinion?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Different schools.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Ms Leydon would like to see, for example, a teacher who is an expert in physics and applied maths be able to teach in perhaps two or three schools and have permanence as though employed in one school. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Is the hesitancy because, traditionally, the teacher was employed by one school and one school alone?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I would have thought it does not require an enormous amount of revolutionary thought to try to develop-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: Who is the employer in that case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I have a question for Ms Maniti related to Ms Leydon's statement. She made the point that in mixed or coeducational schools the number of girls involved in biology, chemistry and physics is below what it is in all-girl schools. Ms Maniti stated that many female students who attend coeducational schools are exposed to sexism and discrimination due to gender stereotypes and biases. Is it a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: It is a big question but what would the union's view be? There is a political discussion under way on whether there should be all coeducational schools in the future. Does Ms Maniti see any fear in that, in terms of the problem she highlighted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: There is a discussion going on that in the future, if we are starting up new schools, they should all be coeducational. Statistically, what appears to be presented is that girls in all-girl schools are more likely to study STEM subjects than girls in coeducational schools where, as Ms Maniti indicated, there can be some sexism. Does that raise any concerns for the committee, in Ms Maniti's...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank Ms O'Reilly for her opening statement. What is her assessment of the third level sector at present and the participation of women at third level? Is it something she would have concerns about when it comes to the study of STEM?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: That links in with the concern Mr. Jones mentioned that even though 41% of PhD STEM graduates are women, it is much lower at a professorial level. I will conclude with a question for Mr. Duffy. I mentioned before that sometimes we can overcorrect things in Ireland. Presumably, we have to be careful we do not completely undermine the significance and importance of the humanities in our...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Education and Skills: The Future of STEM in Irish Education: Discussion (7 Mar 2023)

Jim O'Callaghan: I thank all the witnesses.