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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. Lynch because he is saying what we have been saying. It is good to hear someone in the HSE voicing the same concerns that have made their way into the public arena. The fact that Mr. Lynch is voicing these concerns appears to be recognition of some of the issues about how cases were or were not dealt with over a period. Deputy Connolly, Deputy Murphy, Deputy MacSharry and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am obliged to say that we cannot accept that because I, as Chairman, cannot guarantee it will be kept private if it is sent into the Oireachtas. I am being truthful. It is disappointing. If Mr. Breen provides a figure to Oireachtas Members, it will appear in the public domain thereafter. I do not want to compromise the agency's handling of cases by publishing a figure that could give...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is my difficulty too in not being able to accept it because I do not want the Oireachtas to be a conduit for information getting into the public domain.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am sorry. We can talk about this.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: We could go into private session for two or three minutes so that Mr. Breen could speak to us without supplying any documentation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is time for a final question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I call Deputy Murphy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Sorry to interrupt. A vote has been called in the Chamber on a particular amendment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Thank you.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: It was about glass blocks in the prison and Garda stations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: A vote has been called, Deputy. I will explain to the witnesses what is happening. We will finish this session entirely in the next moment or so. If we can return immediately after the vote, we will take a final run through the periodic payments question. We will do it very quickly because there is a debate on issues concerning wards of court in the Dáil shortly. We want to have our...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I have one or two questions. We have only a minute or two left. As I mentioned, there is a debate in the Dáil this afternoon regarding issues concerning wards of court. Mr. Breen is familiar with that. We asked him on a previous occasion how much of the payments, approximately, that the SCA makes each year are to the Courts Service. A sum of €347 million was paid out. Was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, but I am asking if Mr. Breen recalls that off of the top of his head because there is a debate in the House in an hour. I would be grateful if he could refresh the figure in my head before I go into the Chamber. Was it over 50%?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I do not need an exact figure now but it was substantial.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: That was all I wanted to know. We are aware of that. I have two other questions. The last time Mr. Breen was here he also told us that the section 38 organisations have come within the remit of the SCA in the last year. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Breen send us a list of agencies and organisations with which the SCA deals? I am referring to a client list or whatever the correct term might be.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: I ask Mr. Breen to send that on in due course. It does not have to be done now. The second thing concerns the general claims of €820 million. Can that be broken down by client list or would that be difficult? I know the SCA has such a list.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is fine. As I stated, I do not want to do anything that would compromise the SCA's defence. I will just state that it would be interesting to know if perhaps there is an agency that attracted something like 100 claims. Other agencies might have fewer claims. Perhaps there might be a mechanism to group them, if there is a way to provide that information without compromising a defence.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Breen and the SCA can liaise with the secretariat. I ask him to give us some reply. He heard me earlier; I do not want to compromise the State's position by over-exposing what is being provided at this stage. Mr. Breen will understand my position. I have some final points. I am interested in a figure regarding the settlements made by the SCA last year. I would like the figure...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

Seán Fleming: What scheme?

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