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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is it correct, therefore, that it is not decided?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Ms Hurley said earlier that the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform had asked a number of Departments, including hers, if they wanted to be the parent Department for Benefacts but that the offer was declined. Before the Department declined that offer, was it appraised of the report done by Indecon for the Department of Public Expenditure, National...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is Ms Hurley saying that the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform raised procurement issues? Did it show the Indecon report to the Department of Rural and Community Development?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: When the Secretary General of the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform was before the committee, I asked him if he had read the Indecon report. He told me he was briefed on it but he did not say he read it. I had an engagement with him on that. I wish to refer to specific elements of the report. The conclusions section states: "Indecon’s...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can I just stop Ms Hurley there please? The role of Benefacts was not to provide greater transparency. In fact, the Charities Bill was enacted in 2009 and the Charities Regulator began its operations in 2014 but Benefacts actually only commenced around that time so it was not going to duplicate that. If we look at the administration of each Department, one of my criticisms is that there...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I am asking about minutes of meetings or engagements between the Department of Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform and the Department of Rural and Community Development. There must be some record of the engagement with Ms Hurley's Department regarding the request that it would take Benefacts on board. What did the Department of Public Expenditure, National...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Ms Hurley is saying that it is a separate thing entirely.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I want to go back to something that Deputy McAuliffe said earlier in respect of having an overview. Some communities are very advantaged. There have good resources and they are established communities. Very often I find that in new communities, people do not know one another. Very disadvantaged communities do not have the same access to resources. There are often issues relating to...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: How is information shared?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The Department of Rural and Community Development does not know what the Departments of Housing, Local Government and Heritage or Social Protection, or the HSE, are grant aiding. One organisation could be getting many different grants because it is in a better resourced area but the Department of Rural and Community Development does not have an overview in the way it would have been compiled...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Quigley is telling me it is probably not doable.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I have some additional questions. Who initiated the scoping exercise for the grant database? Was it the Minister or the officials? Where did that come from?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I presume there would have been terms of reference and a business case.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is that available to us or have we seen that before?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Did Pobal then engage with any third parties to assist in the process and if they did will Ms Hurley tell us who the Department engaged with? Was there a stakeholder survey as well?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Grant-funded-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: -----or funders?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: While it was live, did the Department ever use the Benefacts database?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I understand that the scoping exercise involves a two-pronged approach - one part relates to the funding platform to reduce the administration and the other to the funders. Perhaps Mr. Quigley could outline the position for us.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 42 - Rural and Community Development
Report of the Accounts of the Public Services 2021
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(30 Mar 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That is the problem.

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