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Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The surplus is higher than in the summer economic statement. Given that higher figure, the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, and I are trying to work to identify the measures.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: They will be once-off measures. IFAC also warned us about the need to get the balance right between them being affordable beyond 2022 and not adding to inflation. We are keenly aware - and the Deputy has acknowledged this in his question - of the possibility of finding ourselves in a world undergoing a further and prolonged energy shock. That affects the profitability of very large...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I fully agree with that. If the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and I are in a position to have clarity regarding what a revenue gain will be 2023, of course, we will want to bring that forward and inform the Oireachtas and use that in our work. I think both of us are being quite clear this evening in saying that is not what we are banking on. There is much work to be done in...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: On the freak budgetary interventions, we have not even completed this budget, as the Deputy knows. He has summarised very well the fact that it is only a few days away, which the Minister, Deputy McGrath, and I are keenly aware of. When we do our budget and announce our measures, that will include measures for 2022 that we do not anticipate changing. The Minister has made the point, and I...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Covid was a period in which we had very low inflation. In fact, we had deflation on a few occasions. Economies were closed. We are now in a high-inflation environment, with a record number of people at work. We need to put measures in place that will work and make a difference but are appropriate to that different environment. That is what we are trying to do.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I see a real contradiction in what Deputy Boyd Barrett has said. On one hand, he views the corporate sector as being at the root of many of the difficulties we are in. He has said many times that he wants to nationalise many large corporate companies that are located here and he said that again this evening. On one hand, he sees the corporate sector as being the cause of the many...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy knows I have the height of respect for him but the cause of all the higher level of difficulty we have is Putin invading Ukraine. That is causing the huge challenge we have and the Deputy has not made any reference to it this evening. It is the invasion of Ukraine by Putin.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is shaking his head but that is the cause.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The invasion has done more than made matters worse. What is happening at the moment is that energy - its price and availability - has been weaponised by somebody who has invaded another country. Whatever ills or challenges global capitalism may well have-----

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It has been weaponised by a man who has invaded a country. That is who it has been weaponised by.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank Deputy Michael Healy-Rae for the points he raised. I know he has an understanding of the real world, especially small businesses. Like the Minister, Deputy McGrath, I have been approached directly by businesses, which have sent me pictures of their bills. I fully understand the challenge that is developing and the need to respond to it. I agree with everything the Minister, Deputy...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I thank the Deputy very much. It is not the case that there is a Government agreement in place regarding the scale of measures for this year and that money is going to be set aside for the future challenges, but we are not telling people; it is that we are working on all of this at the moment. The decisions will be made just before the budget and we will announce them at that point. In...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The taxation commission has brought forward the set of options for this and future Governments to consider. Some of the recommendations it brought forward are difficult in the current economic environment with the pressures on living standards that we discussed at length here this evening. The Government will consider the report fully now that we have noted it this morning. There will be...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We have just seen an energy company leave Ireland. The prices being charged by many of the energy companies to which the Deputy refers are determined by the purchase price of the energy they need. I strongly reject Deputy Boyd Barrett's suggestion that the cause of where we are at the moment is corporate malpractice or companies charging more for energy than they should. I do not accept...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We have a lot of work under way in the Department of Finance, as do our colleagues in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, to try to capture what would be the impact of budget decisions, how they differentiate by gender and by different groups in society. We are committed, on budget day or shortly afterwards, to try to publish a more rounded assessment of what we have done beyond...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: To build on what the Minister said, it is my experience that there has been a significant change in this area in Departments that come to the Departments of Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance. I have definitely seen in recent years that when Ministers and their officials are bringing forward proposals they are couching them more in terms of what impact they could have on children and...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes, absolutely. The challenge with indexation, as I mentioned in an earlier exchange with the Chairman, is the costs involved in delivering it and how we reconcile that with all of the other commitments we are expected to deliver. The Minister covered that.

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There are opportunities to make adjustments to our VAT code now on foot of the new directive implemented by the EU before the summer. I used some of that flexibility earlier this year to lower VAT on electricity. There is also additional flexibility in VAT on some forms of equipment and investment. As such, the point is a fair one. What I now need to do is try to reconcile some ideas that...

Committee on Budgetary Oversight: Updated Economic and Fiscal Position in Advance of Budget 2023: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I accept that that is a risk, but with €1 billion worth of tax proposals at the moment, I will not be making proposals that, in and of themselves, are capable of adding to inflationary pressure. To be making-----