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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: What does that mean?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Should Ms Hardiman have referred this to the Medical Council? Did that come up in any discussions at the time with the board at the ad hoc meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: How is this possible? This individual was the subject of this review, which we keep being told was a HR review and nothing to do with macro issues and cannot be shared. At the heart of it is an individual, which is a HR issue, and how is it possible that a decision was taken to not refer the individual to the Medical Council?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: The new CEO decided three years later this is an issue that should be referred to the Medical Council.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: I am right. That is why she referred it.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Everyone accepted that Ms Hardiman had a contract of indefinite duration. What then was the dispute about?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Why did it cost €120,000 to work out what the agreement was? Was it accepted that Ms Hardiman was entitled to the salary as a CEO? Was there a factual dispute and, if so, what was that factual dispute?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: However, Ms Hardiman can see why people watching or listening are trying to work out why that cost €120,000. Why did she need so many lawyers? If everyone was in agreement that she had a contract of indefinite duration and she was entitled to the CEO salary of an equivalent scale, what was going on in those rooms that it took €120,000 to resolve?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: That is fair. Ms Hardiman said she would be happy to waive her NDA. Am I correct in that?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Would Ms Nugent be happy for CHI to waive the NDA in relation to this process?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Is that a matter she could raise with the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Which is the third entity? Is it the HSE? Ms Hardiman said there were three parties to this NDA.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Which Department?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Perhaps we can go back to the Department of Health. Who requested the NDA? Was it Ms Hardiman, the Department of Health or CHI?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Who initiated the NDA?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: No, who requested that there be an NDA? Was it Ms Hardiman, the Department of Health or CHI?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: I know that. I am just asking about the NDA.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: However, there is an NDA dealing with the whole outworkings of it as well, whereby Ms Hardiman could not discuss what had taken place or what had been agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: Please do. I will get my time back from the Chair, I am sure.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2023 - Children's Health Ireland
Financial Statements - National Treatment Purchase Fund
(3 Jul 2025)

James Geoghegan: How does that relate then to the code of practice for the governance of State bodies that we have highlighted in terms of not having NDAs?

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