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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: The next speaker is Deputy Brady.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy O'Connor.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. Laffey. I call Deputy O'Connor.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I will come in on the issue of retrofits, if I may. I have raised with Mr. Doyle a number of times the need for deep retrofits, including external wraps, on old local authority houses. Such retrofits are more difficult. In those old estates, No. 30 may be local authority-owned while No. 31 is privately owned, which causes difficulties. I acknowledge the progress on that. Local...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not mean to be rude but will Mr. Graham tell me under what heading are those 5,500 projected to be delivered? I do not want to nail him down to targets because I know that things can change in a month or two but how does this target of 5,000 affordable units set by the Department and the Minister break down?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is it the case that the majority of the 5,000 will be delivered through shared equity?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be possible to give the committee a note with some information on the breakdown as to what has been delivered and through which paths for the first nine months or three quarters of this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: There is a target of 9,000 social housing units. According to the information we have received from the Department, the overall output was 7,234.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: We constantly hear that local authorities provided 7,500 new builds last year but the figures the Department gave us following our last engagement in this committee show that local authorities using contractors, which is fine, built 1,666.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Riddle me this; while I do not want to go back to the 1970s, there was less mechanisation at that time and, in many ways, it was harder to get things done. Despite that, we were constructing a number in the region of 7,500 or 8,000 a year. In a period of great housing demand, what has happened that has resulted in local authorities only being able to construct less than a quarter of what...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Just one question: what does "LAPV" mean?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is happening regarding the construction? Why are we building less than one quarter of what we were able to do 40 or 50 years ago?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I understand and I accept that.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I have these figures since the last time you appeared before the committee. I thank you for sending them to us. I have been looking at these figures over the last eight months and what I am trying to get at is the reason the capacity of local authorities to build houses has been reduced to 20% or 25% of what it was 50 years ago.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: As I said before, I am not making the argument for 1930s-type housing, or 1970s-type housing for that matter. The reason they were able to build them back then was that they had a number of different plans for different housing needs; for example, one-, two-, three- or four-bedroom houses; single-storey or two-storey houses; or high- or low-density developments. I know what you are going to...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: -----instead of sheets of paper going back and forward between the 31 local authorities.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know you are but I am trying to get this point across and it is very frustrating. When you are starting with a blank canvas on every scheme, how can you stop that? You cannot stop it. You have to get away from starting with a blank canvas. The only blank canvas should be for the site layout and design. For the units, there is nothing wrong with using a standard design. All the private...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I want you to tell me why, as Secretary General of the Department, you are not insisting on being able to use exactly the same plan. I know you are using similar designs, similar standards and similar internal layout. I know all of that, but the same plan not being used from one county to another is a problem in terms of mass production. We need to mass-produce. I am sure that people in...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2022
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 4: Accountability of the Central Funding of Local Authorities.
(26 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: In a small town like Mountrath in County Laois, there is nothing wrong with providing ten or 20 houses. I am not making the argument for vast estates. There is nothing wrong with those ten or 20 houses being the same as houses in Bundoran or Ballyhaunis.

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