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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Department was aware at that point from the papers that were shared that the board was going to be reviewing, assessing and making a decision about that. As I have said to the Deputy, in the papers supplied to us it was not clear what level of community engagement or consultation had taken place on the matter. It was only on the Friday before the announcement was made that my officials...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The CEO, as I told the Deputy, is accurate in what he said there. It was contained in the board papers but it is one matter among many hundreds-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Hold on. It is important to put context on this. It was one matter amid hundreds of pages that were shared with us on that board meeting. From the way the matter was described and the information in it, it was indicated that it was going to be considered at board level amid many other matters that were discussed at board level-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Hold on. In the aftermath of that, a communication was made to the Department on the Friday beforehand, after the board meeting papers had been circulated, to communicate to us at that point that this was happening. So, yes, we were aware at those two different points. I publicly indicated when we became fully aware of the matter on the Friday-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I know all the Deputy is trying to do here is establish-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----some kind of narrative-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: ----- that I was aware of this all along, and that I could have done-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No, let me finish. He is trying to establish a narrative that I was aware of this all along and that I am in some way concealing information from the Deputy or from the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Nothing could be further from the truth.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy will allow me to be clear again on the facts, which are roughly consistent with what he said and absolutely consistent with what Colin Hunt, the chief executive of AIB, said. Yes, the board papers did contain it. In considering those board papers, my officials and the Department were aware of what was happening but perhaps did not anticipate the scale of change that was happening...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Second, as I said before, it was on the Friday before the announcement was made that the second contact happened and then I became aware of it on the Tuesday. They are the three different facts in relation to it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It is what I have said from the very start since I came in here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Of course it is, but what the Deputy is trying to do here, as always, is create the sense that I was aware of something and that I am being less than clear-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That is a matter for the bank to assess, rather than-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No, I am not getting into forming a view on how this has impacted, or not impacted, on the reputation of a bank. It is very clear that this led to and provoked a really significant response on behalf of the public that should have been anticipated. In any reckoning of what the bank did and how it handled it, it must be acknowledged that it reversed the decision within a number of days of it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It undoubtedly caused a very significant reaction to the bank that may over time impact on its reputation among its customers. I also hope that in the fullness of time, we will take into account that the decision was reversed. I think it is a key point as well that the decision was reversed. It did not go ahead. Colin Hunt, the chief executive of AIB, has been in here acknowledging the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That is why I have been very clear because I exactly anticipated the Deputy's line of questioning on the matter. It is a matter for the bank to cast its views regarding its reputation-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am saying to the Deputy that the decision being reversed is material to me in assessing the impact it has had on the reputation of the bank.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I will read the rest of the section in the relationship framework document the Deputy has referred to. It states that "it is likely to create clear and significant reputational issues" - which is why I have been careful in my language regarding assessing the reputational impact of the decision - "for ... the Bank, the Minister or the State and it is outside of the ordinary course of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy knows that is the case.

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