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Written Answers — Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Veterinary Services (18 Jan 2023)

Matt Carthy: 1856. To ask the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine the engagements he has had with other Departments regarding the establishment of a new veterinary college; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1958/23]

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: I apologise for being late. I want clarification on the Convention Centre Dublin and the payment of €1.3 million. Is the OPW obliged to pay that money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: So it is not obliged but is going to pay that money anyway.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Buckley answered the question I asked in his first five seconds, which was that the OPW is not under obligation to pay €1.3 million. He subsequently answered my second question, which was whether the OPW is genuinely considering spending €1.3 million of public money when it does not have to. His answer is that the OPW is actively considering it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Why not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. Buckley just acknowledged there is no obligation on the OPW to pay. How could it possibly be, therefore, that the contractor would have a case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: We are aware of many cases in which there is an obligation on the State to hand over money. Sometimes there would be questions at this committee and elsewhere as to the rational basis for it. We would be told consistently that if there is a legal obligation to pay a sum of money, regardless of what it is, it has to be paid, almost aside from anything else. Could the Comptroller and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is because the contract stipulated those levels.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: These guys are not scraping for a few bob.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Will the State say "No"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Was the company in a position to avail of all the business supports that every other business availed of? I am referring to the temporary wage subsidy scheme and other supports that were in place during the Covid pandemic.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Regardless, it was open to it to do so. We are suggesting that the company, singularly, is in a position to have a payment made to it by the State simply because it had the benefit of being in a contract with the OPW.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: I apologise for interrupting but are there divergent views within the OPW or the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Where are there divergent views?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Is it of the view that we should pay it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Is the Department of the view that we should be handing over €1.5 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: We are now being told that we are not obliged to do so.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Who will make the final decision?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: Is that Department represented at the meeting? Do the officials envisage any scenario whereby the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform would approve a State body spending €1.5 million it did not need to spend?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 13 - Office of Public Works
Chapter 8 - Contract payments in respect of Convention Centre Dublin
(15 Dec 2022)

Matt Carthy: I do not know how these things work but would it not be a good idea, when everybody is being asked their opinion, to go to the people who will be involved in the final sign-off and ask them whether we are wasting our time and whether there is any chance this will be signed off upon?

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