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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I was here for that. The principles of open disclosure in the HSE are: acknowledgement; truthfulness, timeliness and clarity of communication; apology-expression of regret, recognising the expectations of service users, that they may reasonably expect to be fully informed of the facts and consequences in relation to an adverse event; and clinical governance. Does Mr. O'Brien believe that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the witness. When was the screening job last tendered? Was it 2012 or was there a subsequent tendering?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: The witness's opening statement references 2012, but it does not say whether or not that is the most recent tender process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: Before we turn to Mr. Gleeson, Mr. O'Brien might answer one further short question. I thank the Chair for his indulgence. This is off topic but it was raised in the Dáil today, and while Mr. O'Brien is here I want to raise the issue. It concerns his board membership of Evofem Biosciences.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: It is not out of order; it is a very quick question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: We had a three-hour meeting earlier today, which was supposed to be about specialist registers, and many other topics were discussed. This is one question in the course of a 20-minute discussion. I beg the Chair's indulgence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: We were moving to Mr. Gleeson to get an answer to a question that the Chair was ruling in order.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I asked when the screening service was last tendered.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: The last time the decision was made to use services based in the United States was 2016. Is that right?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the witnesses. The meeting is in its fifth hour and their presence is appreciated. I will start with the Department. I seek two pieces of information for the committee. One is referred to in the memorandum to the Minister, namely, the national screening services advice that Vicky Phelan's case did not concern patient safety. I understand this was an email sent on 11 April 2018....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I do not know if Dr. Holohan was the chief medical officer at the time, but the Taoiseach referred to chief medical officer advice on disclosure. Will the committee get that written advice? The advice, as I understand it having been relayed from the Taoiseach, was that, counter-intuitively, mandatory disclosure would lead to less disclosure. I am not asking for the witnesses to relay that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Dr. Holohan. I now return to the case of Vicky Phelan and the Department's response. Is it reasonable to say that no action was taken to prepare for the publicity and its effects as it began to unfold from late Wednesday?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: To clarify the question, I appreciate that action was taken when it became an issue of public concern. The Minister had been told about it ten days before it became a matter for public concern, and the Department knew about it ten days before that. It is fair to say that the system was caught completely off guard. Did the Department do anything to prepare for the potential publicity and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: In the conversations between the Department and the national screening service was the Department given any indication that there could be other cases like this?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: Given that that is the Department's remit, should officials not have asked if there are other cases and wider implications?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I am referring to cases like Vicky Phelan's or false negatives.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: We all know that. However, if the Department's role is to determine potential adverse future use of screening services, which is exactly what has happened, should officials not have asked the national screening service when it said: "This is Vicky Phelan's case. This is what is coming. There is an issue of a false negative. Actually it is more serious than that. It is a missed screening...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: Does Dr. Holohan believe that the national screening service should have informed the Department because it knew this was a wider issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I know Dr. Holohan is speaking in good faith, but we have letters from the clinical director of CervicalCheck saying:"Sure, you only need to tell three of your ten patients about this." CervicalCheck not only knew this it was a wider issue, but it was actively involved in the wider issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Cervical Screening Programme: Department of Health, HSE, CervicalCheck and the National Cancer Control Programme (2 May 2018)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Dr. Holohan. I turn to Dr. Henry. This is a very worrying illustration of a culture of silence. I presume he is doing a lot of thinking about this issue. Why are clinicians not disclosing information to patients, which is clearly in contravention of the HSE's open disclosure policy?

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