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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: If I am ever in a position where I surprise the Deputy with the extent of the decision I have made, I will have to consider whether I have made the right decision. As I said, the key thing is that the decision was reversed. I have been very clear in acknowledging that contact happened between my Department and the bank to make sure it was aware of the public reaction that was under way....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is clear-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy knows that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Deputy Doherty might allow me to conclude the different points we have made here. First, I was very clear in being very careful to say it is up to the banks themselves to assess the impact on their reputations. As the Deputy well knows, the decision here has been reversed. If I was sitting in front of Deputy Doherty and my Department had not made contact with the bank-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy keeps on saying that but I keep saying back to him that I know this is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----for social media videos.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Let me be clear in repeating for the final and umpteenth time to the Deputy that while some discussions may have been happening with regard to speaking points in order that we were fully aware of what was happening and what the bank was saying, equally, at the same time, my officials contacted the bank to first acknowledge its independence but also make sure it was fully aware of the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There Deputy Doherty goes again. On one hand, he deliberately confuses the role that I have as the shareholder and on the other hand, surely, he knows-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy might let me finish answering his question. Surely, he knows that is a decision for the regulator. Does he not know that? It is a decision for the Central Bank of Ireland to determine that, not me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As I indicated to the Deputy and to the Dáil in an answer on this matter some weeks ago, my Department had papers regarding an AIB board meeting shared with us on 29 June. On 1 July, an official in my Department was made aware of this. Officials met AIB in relation to the normal engagement that we have with them. I became aware of this matter on Tuesday, 19 July.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The comments the Taoiseach made were entirely appropriate. He was commenting publicly on the matter. He was asking the banks to be aware of this decision and the consequences of it, but he was not directing them to do it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----or maybe he is not; I have to keep reminding him of this. An unfortunate truth for Deputy Doherty and Sinn Féin is that as the majority shareholder in a bank, we are still not involved in making commercial decisions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I know Deputy Doherty is just looking for content-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am sorry to have to inform the Deputy of this. I would have thought, as a long-standing and distinguished member of the committee, that he would be aware of that fact. It is the Central Bank of Ireland that determines it. The Central Bank is intensively engaging with Ulster Bank with regard to its withdrawal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Of course-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Of course, the difference between me as a member of this committee and other members of this committee, all of whom I hold in very high standing, is that I am the Minister for Finance and I have policy responsibility in these areas. I have to be cognisant of the role of an independent regulator. At the moment, I believe there are some signs of progress under way with regard to the orderly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It would have been much better if the bank had given far more time in between its announcement and the actual implementation of the decision in order to allow proper community engagement and engagement with stakeholders on the matter. I do not believe there was any link or relationship between the decision that it made, how it was communicated and the levying of that fine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Absolutely. I am sure that even the bank would acknowledge that the communication of the decision and engagement with those who will be affected by it could have been done in a completely different way.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No. It is an investment by that banking group in Permanent TSB, which I really welcome. It has enabled Permanent TSB to be involved in a number of transactions that have made the bank, and will make the bank, a larger financial service provider and larger domestic bank. It is only an investment. Any influence or any view that Permanent TSB will have on the development of banking policy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not think so. The reason is, if one has a look at the staffing plans and investment plans that banks have here in Ireland, such a large share of it is in information technology, IT, investment. So many of the staffing decisions that our banks are now making are about how they hire the people who have the right level of expertise in IT and in cybersecurity. While it is undoubtedly the...

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