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Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: Naturally, there are exceptions. There are tremendously talented barristers. One need only mention somebody such as my predecessor as Attorney General, Mr. Dermot Gleason, who has a significant job in the private sector. However, being a barrister is not a passport to such jobs. I believe in barristers being sole traders and single, independent, rugged individuals, but that life demands...

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I will set out all the thinking I have done in public and departmental thinking and have a letter saying all these things sent to the Deputy. I share his passion for reform, which is why I said earlier that the Commissioner, who is in the difficult position of keeping the Garda Síochána functioning and, at the same time, changing it, which is a very difficult position for anybody to be in,...

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: What I find most disturbing, and I will not be provocative, is that if one is faced with something like the RTE authority, even the good and great, even independently appointed by the Commission for Public Service Appointments or selected according to some process, in the end, some issue will arise where the Minister of the day says he or she does not agree with what those people are doing.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: One is then faced with the question of whether the Minister sacks them en masse and says that he or she is putting in new people who take a different view of, for example, the fight against drugs or gang crime. I do not think that is a good idea.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: We have an independent Garda authority, of which the Deputies opposite are members. The real thing is for this House——

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: That is the point. The capacity of the Commissioner as Accounting Officer is purely financial. He makes budgetary decisions and it is a powerful position. Generally speaking, his accountability as Accounting Officer is to the Committee of Public Accounts. There is no reason the Commissioner and the deputy commissioners should not be regular attendees before a policing and crime prevention...

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: That is the point I am making. This is a Parliament with 166 people for a population of 4.5 million or whatever it is. I know we have fewer people than the Parliament at Westminster, but its committee system works better than ours.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: That may be so, but it works better than our system. We must be slightly humble and ask why systems of scrutiny at Westminster are far more effective than ours. That is an endemic problem for us.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: It could be due to multi-seat proportional representation or many things, but Westminster seems to do it better than us.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I am opposed to it for reasons I have outlined.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: All I am saying is that there are many qualifications and that experience covers many things. I do not want it to be thought that this management board is there to supervise human rights in the force.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: No, but I want to try to transform the executive capacity of the force and improve it dramatically. I do not want to be a position where I need to have professors of sociology there. That is not what this is about.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I can give an oral indication that these issues are ones to keep in the back of one's mind when one is making an appointment. However, I do not want to be in a position where, somehow, professors of social science are more eligible than somebody who has actually managed an organisation.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I really want experience in the management of a large organisation. Experience in the social sciences does not necessarily qualify one to do that, no more than being a lawyer does. If I was tough on the lawyers earlier, I must also be tough on academics and social scientists. They are not necessarily the people to whom one would give top executive positions. If I may say something——

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I wish to speak about the amendment. Deputy Ó Snodaigh asked about remuneration. It must be flexible. Obviously, one will not pay them more than the Commissioner because that would be——

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: It is not a full-time job, rather it is a weekly job. They are non-executive directors. I cannot say it is going to be €20,000 or €50,000. I do not know. However, it must be sufficiently attractive to get somebody of capacity to devote at least one day a week to the job.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: The function of this board is as an executive board. Its function is not to advise the Oireachtas or me, but to get stuck into the executive functions of the Garda Síochána. While I appreciate what the Deputy is getting at, I do not want to go down that road.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: I want to leave that function with the Commissioner.

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: It is not intended that the board would have anything to do with the Minister of the day or his responsibilities. I am very anxious that the joint policing committees be rolled out, but their primary relationship is with gardaí at a local level. It is not——

Criminal Justice Bill 2007: Report Stage (Resumed). (5 Apr 2007)

Michael McDowell: There is no evaluation currently. I went ahead with a number of the joint policing committees in order to get the CCTV systems up and running. I had boxed myself into a corner as I could not put in a CCTV system without a local policing committee to approve it. There was a slightly arbitrary approach to decide which places got them. I hope to roll them out right across the country. We...

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