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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: That is in the €900 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: That was winning the tender-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: And to recover start-up and set-up costs and so on. I understand that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: I do not wish to get too bogged down in this but I am not sure whether anyone else has developed this point. Is it fair to say the State is basically paying for the building of the network and, ultimately, the investors' money is going into making sure there is working capital and a resource there to keep the system ticking over once it has been built? The State is paying for the building...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: It is €120 million. I wish to distinguish between traditional equity compared with debt that is coming in. Is Mr. Hendrick allowed to give us the breakdown of that €120 million in terms of shareholders' equity funds that can be lost compared with repayable debt that comes at a price and in the context of which the shareholders will not share the benefits of the profits in the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: I am not trying to trip up anyone. I am just trying to understand it for my own sake.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: To develop the point before I lose my train of thought, there is no bank debt there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: Is all that €223 million, of which €120 million has been stumped up so far, if one likes, a loan note, is it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: That is pure equity.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: What is the practical reason for having €2 million in pure equity and the rest in debt equity that is not secured and can be lost anyway? What is the difference?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: There was reference to there being 12%, however, in terms of-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: The €2 million does not get any return but the rest-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: The loan note shareholders get their 12%. Do they also share in the profits after that or is it the investors of the €2 million who get the surplus profits?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: Okay. All the shareholders have a share of the €2 million and a share of the pro rata-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: I do not mean to focus on any individual. It is not that one shareholder has the €2 million and gets all the surplus profits and all the other shareholders get the 12% but do not get the surplus profits.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: I hope people listening at home have not switched off at this stage, if they were listening in the first place. It is for the sake of the committee that I am asking these questions. I do not think any other member has developed that point. I thank Mr. Kelly. From the perspective of consumers and public representatives, the most important thing is to have as much data as possible in real...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: That is not just more people. It is also the products that people are using online, such as Netflix, which consume much more data than checking emails.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: That allows people to see how good the fibre network is.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: There are commercial sensitivities. Retails are taking bigger and smaller margins to get bigger and smaller shares of the market.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport: National Broadband Plan Update: National Broadband Ireland (27 Jan 2022)

Gerry Horkan: Volume is what will drive down prices.

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