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Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: While we are on it, because this is a broader issue than any one individual, from where would the brief have come for the refurbishment of the offices for the former Taoiseach? Would that brief have come from the Department of the Taoiseach?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: What is happening with that office today?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: The last page of Ms McGrath's letter of 16 May states, in the third paragraph, that, in order to provide for acoustic insulation and fire protection in the Minister's room, the OPW used timber-veneered panelling because it was an appropriate option to deliver within the restricted timeframe available. Would Ms McGrath explain the restricted timeframe, in other words, were there additional...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: The issue about which there has been significant debate - if Ms McGrath is not the person to answer, she should feel free to say so - is that of ministerial involvement in these works. There have been media reports that it involved ministerial sign-off. What is Ms McGrath's understanding of the link between the then Minister of State and the OPW and the Department in carrying out these...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: I thank Ms McGrath.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: I thank Ms McGrath for helping members tease out this issue. While she has answered some of these questions in her written brief, obviously not everyone is privy to that and so I will ask her to put them on the record here. The OPW was responsible for meeting the cost of providing this office space. From where does it find that money? Ms McGrath has told Deputy Eoghan Murphy that there is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Does that include any works the OPW must do across its entire range of responsibilities?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Not just ministerial or Civil Service offices.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Very well. When the OPW is contacted by a Department, in this instance by the then Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, does it simply take the Department at its word that it does not have adequate accommodation space or does the OPW link in with it? Does the OPW try to establish whether it can save money? I have to hand many drawings and could be confused but one drawing from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Did that happen in this instance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: In other words, before the OPW sanction or agree to undertake a project, it would have to satisfy itself that there is not existing accommodation within the Department.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: I appreciate that some of these questions are for the Accounting Officer of the Department but I must put them to the Chairman because she is present. Does the OPW have any role in scrutinising the brief? Ms McGrath has stated the Department sends the brief to the OPW but what precisely does the office do with it? Does it go through it and check it is in line with everything the office is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: I was eager for the OPW to provide a comparator because in fairness to the Chairman of this committee, the then Minister of State, it is important that the committee gets a sense of whether this was in line with the experience of other Ministers. I appreciate the difficulty Ms McGrath has had in this regard but in her letter to the committee of 16 May, Ms McGrath referred to the nearest...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Was that for a Minister of State?

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: A senior Minister.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Okay. Ms McGrath obviously has provided the committee with the cost of the office in the then Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, at approximately €205,000. How much of that cost does Ms McGrath think was attributable to the fact the building was a protected structure? While I appreciate the difficulty Ms McGrath has in making comparisons, members must also try to make...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: While Ms McGrath may not have such a figure to hand now, I believe it would be possible to make a fair stab at working out the costs associated with it being a protected structure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: No, I am not asking Ms McGrath to do that. However, I imagine that were the OPW to examine the associated bills, there would be a way of establishing that some of them were attributable to work it was obliged to do in the then Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which it was not obliged to do in Hawkins House because the former is a protected structure and that this work cost X...

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Yes, well if Ms McGrath can do that as well-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2011 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 10 - Office of Public Works
(23 May 2013)

Simon Harris: Yes.

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