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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: I thank the Minister. Deputies Richmond and Tóibín have indicated.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: On page 13.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: What page is it?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Is that page 15?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: In the Estimate, there is a figure for disabled drivers and the refund in respect of the disabled drivers and disabled passengers scheme. All of us, from time to time, requested that the scheme be reformed or made more accessible. Are there discussions in the Department regarding reform in this area? Turning to the loss of a disabled driver permit, such a decision will mean that the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: I would point out that successive governments, over the past 20 years, were told there was a problem but they chose to ignore it until such time as the matter went to court.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: It is an awful reflection on the State that it allowed such a situation to arise and did not address it. I am asking that the matter be addressed in terms of policy and that we look at how the €370,000 provision is spent. I would like to know what the breakdown of that figure is and the policy direction the Department will take to ensure we get value for money for taxpayers. We must...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Does the Minister of State know whether the Comptroller and Auditor General has been left short of anything for which he has asked? Specifically, has he included in his requirement for this year any specific request that has not been granted by the Department?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Can we have a note on that? Regarding the work of the Comptroller and Auditor General, I would like to mention that the fact that local government, which is one of the biggest spending parts of Government, is not audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. This has been spoken about for years but it seems that either the Department of Finance is afraid to take them on because of the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: These questions may not be directly related to what is before us today but they are related in a way. If we do not start to get it right in the State, we will continue to get it half right and half wrong. In the context of Brexit and our direct connectivity with Europe, does the State have any plans to purchase the services of container ships for transport directly to Europe rather than...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: We need a second, efficient level of service directly to Europe for roll-on, roll-off services-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: -----and container services. While it is an operation for the private sector, if they do not have the appropriate services, then we will not be able to get our products to market in as efficient a way as we should. Therefore the State would need to have a plan. Would the Department of Finance encourage that plan because of the nature of the business being transacted? It is for the State...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Deputies Matthews and Durkan are seeking to contribute so we will get their questions before hearing from the Minister of State again.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: We must all learn that this is the most important committee meeting. Get the priorities right.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: I have a question on claims by members of the public, as per page 31 of the Estimates. There were 25 such cases. The legal costs paid by the Office of the Revenue Commissioners were €33,000, the legal costs awarded came to €166,000, compensation paid amounted to €86,000 and the total cost was €285,000. In contrast, there were only 11 claims by Revenue employees...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Yes but the first breakdown of claims from members of the public shows that there were 25 cases which would be matters of public liability. What types of accidents were involved in the claims by Revenue employees?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: There is a provision for the cost of ministerial drivers under the Office of the Minister for Finance. I ask the Minister of State to explain that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: Is that paid by the Department of Finance or the line Department?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Revised Estimates for Public Services 2020
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Tax Appeals Commission (Revised)
(6 Oct 2020)

John McGuinness: I came across the item under ministerial drivers. I do not think that it relates to Ministers of State.

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