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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Seriously, what the Minister is saying just does not make any sense. First of all, this has been going on, as Deputy Nash said, for nearly a decade. A decade ago interest rates were zero at ECB level and many customers were on tracker or fixed rates. Let us therefore be clear about this and have a proper discussion with regard to the facts. Mazars was very clear. The intention of this...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The proposal is to continue to extend this every single year, despite all the evidence that it is pushing up house prices. This tax credit has cost us €909 million, and independent reports tell us that 53% of it was not needed. That takes the biscuit. I do not know of another tax measure that has so much deadweight in it and in respect of which the Minister for Finance comes in and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: -----the independently commissioned report.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: How does-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, there is no time limit on Committee Stage.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I know, and it is an important one because it relates to a measure that has cost nearly €1 billion since it was introduced. I would still like the Minister to answer the question about the deadweight. Some 53% of people availing of this scheme do not need it for a deposit. Does that concern him at all? He is extending a scheme that has that metric in it, and that metric has just...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Is the Minister disputing the Mazars report? It states that 53.3% is the deadweight. I can read it for the Minister. That number has increased. I am just challenging this, if the Minister wants to address the point. The deadweight is 53.3%.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I welcome the changes being made to benefit-in-kind for electric vehicles. This will have a big impact on some companies and individuals. Is there an upper limit to avail of this benefit-in-kind exemption and the €45,000? Is there an upper limit on the purchase price of the vehicle, which would be the open market value of the vehicle? Is it €50,000? Is this still there?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: My question to the Minister is whether there is an upper limit on the value of the car. A high-end car costs a lot of money. Is there an upper limit? Is there a €50,000 value? Is this available for high-end cars that have low emissions?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There are electric vehicles in the market for €140,000. If a company provides an executive with one of these Mercedes that costs €180,000 or €140,000 will the individual be able to reduce their benefit-in-kind by €45,000 using this measurement?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is fine. There is no cap on the value of the car. I wonder why the Minister would not consider having a cap. There are electric vehicles that can cost a lot of money. Companies are providing their workers with electric vehicles in the range of €30,000 to €50,000. This is what is happening everywhere. I would not be surprised if funds here have executives driving...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This is another one of the Minister’s U-turns. His Government opposed any suggestion of a renter’s tax credit because, it argued, it would go into the pockets of landlords and rents would increase. Now we have seen the introduction of the renter’s tax credit at €500. Under this section, it will increase to €750 and be extended to parents who are paying...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I will make a couple of points and then I have to leave. The Minister did not answer the question about why there is no restriction on rent increases. Since the Government took office, rents have increased on average by €5,000 per year. The arguments made previously were that if you provided a relief, which we called for, it would end up in the pockets of landlords unless you have a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: That is section 11(1)(b). I have a final question. A large number of renters who are entitled to this have not claimed the credit. It is a cumbersome way to claim the credit because you need to get details from your landlord, you need to put your own details and so on. However, a lot of people are fearful of even having a conversation about rents with the landlord. The landlord might say...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister will be aware that I have campaigned for a long time on mortgage interest relief. I welcome that the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023 has an element of mortgage interest relief but, like many good Sinn Féin ideas, the Government sometimes takes them and messes them up. We saw that with the renters' credit, where there is no freeze, therefore much of it ends up in the pockets of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Good luck to you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This is very real for many people. We are sitting in here and I know we will have a bit of good craic as we go through this, but there are 130,000 people who are locked out of this scheme by the Minister's proposal. There are 130,000 families who are not going to get mortgage interest relief, regardless of how much their mortgage went up in the past year. That is completely unfair. I hear...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance (No. 2) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (7 Nov 2023)

Pearse Doherty: We did not.

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