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Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: It is a major point. Mr. Nugent might clarify for us. Were the topped up portions of pay, in other words, the additional salaries that the CRC was paying above the €106,000 for Mr. Kiely, subject to the pension levy deductions?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: In other words, was Mr. Kiely's salary, minus €106,000, subject to the pension levy deductions?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: I was concerned to hear on 2 December a current member of the board, Mr. Vincent Brady, state that the board had never sanctioned additional payments for any staff. Regardless of whether someone working in a company earns €200,000 or €20,000, the board of directors or governors are responsible for that remuneration. Was Mr. Brady correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Mr. Brady was incorrect to say that the board never sanctioned additional payments for any staff.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: I read Mr. Brady's comments in The Irish Times, but I did not read a clarification or request for clarification from him. He clearly stated that the board had never sanctioned additional payments. From January 2010, the HSE was only covering €106,000 of Mr. Kiely's salary. Presumably, the board would have had to sanction the payment of the remainder of the salary from its own funds....

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: I take that point, but it is a governance issue. Was this discussed and decided upon at a board meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: I have heard Mr. Martin make a point at this meeting and Mr. Des Peelo make it on the national airwaves, namely, that the HSE was well aware of the arrangement - I am paraphrasing - and the CRC's contractual obligations. Nowhere in the file of correspondence between the HSE and the CRC, which went backwards and forwards over a long period, can I see any written confirmation of this from the...

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Did Mr. Martin view it as peculiar that the HSE never confirmed it in writing?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: I thank Mr. Nugent, Mr. Martin and Mr. Kiely for attending. I particularly thank Mr. Kiely for having the decency to attend our committee this morning. That, in itself, is admirable and I am grateful that you are here. I will start by asking Mr. Nugent two questions. Did you ask Mr. Conlan to attend today? Did you have any conversation with Mr. Conlan in advance of coming here today?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: So you asked him to attend-----

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: -----and he declined.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Okay, but you asked him to be here.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Thank you. For the record, how long are you a member of the board of the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: How long is Mr. Nugent a member of the board of the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: How does one become a member of the board of the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: We will try to follow.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration (11 Dec 2013)

Simon Harris: Who elects the members?

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