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Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: The chain of command would apply, and this would entail the person immediately above one. Again, these prohibitions apply only where a member of the Defence Forces is in uniform or otherwise identifiable. That is all we are talking about here. I believe we all accept that the military plays a unique role. There has been strong military advice on this requiring that military command,...

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: People could identify themselves on social media.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: The phrase is "making himself or herself identifiable". If they do not do that, there is no issue.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: That is being examined by the Attorney General’s office and the perfecting of the order is still live before the courts. The judge himself identified this as a delicate balance and understood the issues that are before the court. He highlights that the issue is a difficult one that needs to be dealt with “in a manner which takes account of the interests and sensitivities of...

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: No decision has been made, but the Attorney General is examining the judgment and the case is still live before the courts in the context of the perfecting of the judgment. We have to wait and see what happens.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: Not specifically this section, but more broadly in respect of what the implications of the judgment are.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: This relates to the phrase "while in uniform", however.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: That relates to a person, by their own activism or decision-making, making themselves identifiable. If a school principal says someone is a member of the Defence Forces, that person is not making himself or herself identifiable.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: All of this is already in legislation. In some respects, it is probably a loosening of what is already in regulations.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: It is in law in terms of regulations.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: It stems from defence Acts. Secondary legislation has applicability as law if it correctly derives from primary legislation. There can occasionally be arguments that regulations are-----

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: I am saying there are Defence Forces regulations which are-----

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: Yes, they derive from the Acts.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: I think we need to have clarity. We have to be upfront about it. Deputy Howlin started off this debate well by going back to the fundamentals. We all desire to respond positively to the submissions we get but, as a State, we need clear demarcation lines and clear basic principles that govern how the Defence Forces operate and the relationship between that and our political system. That is...

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: We take views from the military in respect of all legislation. As per the Act, the Chief of Staff is there to advise.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: Management. They would have views on this, such as the Chief of Staff, obviously.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: No, we are seeking views prior to finalising legislative decisions. The Chief of Staff is, under the Act, an adviser to the Minister of the day, so-----

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: No, that is not circumscribed by this at all. The prohibition of the military right to strike is fundamental to the maintenance of military discipline, guarantees the provision of defence and secures the other services of the Government, and clear and specified provision must be made in legislation under the Defence Forces regulations to guarantee the availability of military capabilities to...

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: They do.

Select Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (23 May 2024)

Micheál Martin: I was taken aback by something the Deputy said earlier. For the proper conduct of any state, what has stood Ireland in strong stead has been, generally speaking, the apolitical nature of our public service.

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