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Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: And you accepted.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: There was a period between when Mr. Conlan left the position of chief executive officer of the Mater on 31 December 2012 and taking up the position as chief executive officer of the CRC on 1 July 2013. In what capacity was he a member of the CRC board during that time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: So you were appointed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Before all of this got murkier, one of the original reasons that I was eager that Mr. Conlan would attend the committee was that he could provide us with a unique insight into the working of the CRC. Can he give us some detail about these board meetings? Were there robust discussions? Were there debates and votes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Will he explain the culture of the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: To clarify, in his eight years on the board, does Mr. Conlan remember anyone saying that the idea from the remuneration committee does not sound right or that there was an awful lot of money coming from the friends and supporters group and where was it going? Was everyone just sitting there like nodding dogs or were there people living up to their responsibilities as directors? This has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Yet money given to charity was used to pay wages.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Small amounts in the overall sense but significant amounts. We now know that half of the annual income of the CRC friends and supporters group one year went to Mr. Paul Kiely.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Mr. Conlan is in a unique position to answer my next question. We had this misleading or inaccurate statement provided by Mr. Kiely at the end of his testimony to this committee. We had Mr. Conlan’s successor at the Mater who provided clarity on it. It transpired the board of the CRC, as well as the auditors, signed off on financial statements which included the inaccurate statement...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Will Mr. Conlan apologise for his role as a member of the CRC board to the clients of the CRC and the taxpayer?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: My final question relates to Mr. Conlan’s resignation as CEO. I read in your statement how you said it came about. Did you discuss it with the chairman of the board? Did it come as a surprise to the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Is he examining all expenditure relating to the chief executive? Are there credit cards in the CRC? What is this limited to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: We can take it as a committee that as the interim administrator corresponds with the DG, we will receive the relevant information as quickly as possible.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Have the HSE and the interim administrator taken advice on the legality or potential illegality of any of the activities uncovered to date?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Do we know as of yet whether he has had any discussions with members of An Garda Síochána?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: I thank Mr. O'Brien. Let me try again with Mr. Conlan. When did he first become aware that Mr. Paul Kiely was retiring or intending to retire from the CRC?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: The minutes that we have are of a meeting that took place on 25 March at 5 p.m. in the boardroom of the CRC. Mr. Conlan had sent his apologies. The minutes show categorically in black and white that "he [the chairman] informed the meeting that he, Mr. Nugent and Mr. Conlan [I presume there is only one Mr. Conlan] had had a preliminary meeting with MERC, a recruitment company, to discuss the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: Does Mr. Brian Conlan remember this meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: He remembers that he went to a meeting with MERC and he accepts that it happened in advance of 25 March.

Public Accounts Committee: 2012 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 39 - Health Service Executive
Annual Report and Financial Statements 2012
Section 38 - Agencies Remuneration
(16 Jan 2014)

Simon Harris: So he accepts that he knew of Mr. Kiely's intended departure before 25 March.

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