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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank Mr. Costello.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I understand all of that and, in fairness, the delegates have laid it out. On that point - the profit margin of the main contractor - the initial bid was €687 million. It would have included a profit margin, an internal rate of return, a return on invested capital or whatever metric the contractor wanted to use. There will be a net current value of the contract. Given that there is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Therefore, the margin has not increased.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Does the board not have an open book with the contractor for a bill of quantities?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I would like to come back to the main figures because there are a lot of numbers being thrown around. I ask the Chairman to request a like-for-like comparison from the board. There are lots of figures, some of which include VAT, while some do not. As I see it, there are four big chunks. Phase A involved the below ground work, decanting buildings, getting the site ready and laying the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I would love to come to Ms. Hardiman, but would she mind if we concentrated first on the figure €1.43 billion?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Does the figure of €1.43 billion include the cost of commissioning?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Does it include the cost of IT?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Where does IT fit, clinical or non-clinical? Is that included in the €1.4 billion figure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I know there is overlap and I am simplifying. When the development board finishes and leaves, there will be a building that is painted and finished, with all the cables and oxygen pipes, all of that, but no beds or equipment. Will there be beds?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: It is part of the remit.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Let us simplify again on the physical structure. There will be a day when the doors open and the clinicians and patients walk in. In terms of what they will see and use in the hospital, is ICT the only thing missing at that point? It sounds as if the beds and diagnostics will be there, and the canteens and cookers will be in place. Will all of that be there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: The syringes will be there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: The disposable medical equipment will not be there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Consumables will not be there?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: For that €1.433 billion, would Mr. Pollock mind doing the following urgently, because the officials will be here before the committee next week? Would Mr. Pollock please give the committee an evolution of that figure? We are comparing different figures. The €1.43 billion figure includes VAT. The €687 million figure from BAM did not include everything we have just...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: It does not include equipment. We know that the construction costs have increased by about €450 million.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Plus an additional €130 million on VAT, additional costs at Tallaght and Connolly, site supervision and professional design fees.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Site supervision and design fees are construction costs. They are part of building a building. If the professional fees for building a building go up, that is a construction cost. Let us take VAT out. The construction costs have gone up by about €400 million, €420 million or €430 million, excluding VAT. Would the witnesses mind working backwards - and they may not be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: National Children’s Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (16 Jan 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Does that include everything that is included in the €1.43 billion figure?

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