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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: So you knew something was not right with that and you said, more or less, you took Dee Forbes at her word and were happy enough to-----

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: Which would not have been normal.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You took her at her word that the 80% would be made up, so you let it go and did not flag it with management.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You had no reason not to trust her - fair enough. When it transpired the exit package was not compliant with the scheme and you were fully aware of that, you still went ahead and implemented it. You did not flag it. You knew the rules had been broken but did not raise it with management of any description.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: Yes, but further on, when you were given the instruction, as you said in your opening statement, to go ahead with the scheme, you knew at that stage there was no possible chance of the 80% savings being made because the new CFO was being instated and the role had not been suppressed. You knew all that.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: Do not play with words. You knew at that stage what you were being asked to sign off on was not correct but you did it.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You knew there was something wrong with that instruction. It did not sit comfortably with you. Even if you had given the benefit of the doubt initially, it was now in black and white that procedures were not being followed and rules were being broken, yet you signed off on it.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You are the head of HR so it was your responsibility to make sure in your department things were done right, rules were not broken, procedures were adhered to and schemes were not cut up for individuals. That was your job as director of human resources. Am I correct in saying that?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: No, you said it in your opening statement. That is what I am referring to. We are talking about this package where rules were broken, things were overlooked and you as head of HR did not flag it with management.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: Okay. You also said this type of single-line approval could not happen now but it was not supposed to happen then either. It was supposed to have board approval.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: No, there is a board. That is what I keep asking. You did not flag it with anyone else in management or with the board.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: It was supposed to happen then and did not, and you are in part responsible for that because you were aware of it, part of it and involved in it but did not flag it up with anybody.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You were involved in it. You have said it here.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: Of course you were involved in it. Your statement says: The exit of the former CFO was processed in the same way as all others. She received the standard letter, which included the wording “as approved by the Executive Board”. You said this was an administrative oversight and one you take full responsibility for. Deputy Griffin referred to that paragraph too. I have...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: You are downplaying the facts. My point is at no stage did you intervene as head of HR or speak up and say what was being done was wrong. Believe me when I say I am trying to understand. Were you afraid of Dee Forbes? Were you afraid of questioning her or of tackling her on this?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: That is not my question. I asked because of what we have just gone through, where there were three different opportunities for you to speak up and each time you did not question it and she was the top cat. In your position as director of HR, were you afraid to question Dee Forbes?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: That is clear enough. That means you just did not do your job. You were not afraid to question her, you knew what she was doing was wrong and you did not do your job. That is it in a nutshell. What does Mr. Bakhurst think on hearing a member of his executive board did not do their job? She was not afraid to hold the former director general to account but she just did not do her job.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: We are talking about trust. The public will hear this and see that executive is still on the board and in the same position, has no excuse for not doing her job and was complicit in this all the way along.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: I accept what you are saying but time is of the essence. That is all fair and dandy but it comes back to trust and people having confidence. I suspect with somebody who did not do their job, as we have just discovered now in black and white, that there was this thinking among those in the highest positions in RTÉ that these things would never come into the public domain or come to...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (14 Feb 2024)

Imelda Munster: There were questions of tax compliance about ten others, were there not?

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