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Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: My follow-up question is whether this changes the latitude available in respect of the terms and conditions. Is it the case that the board can state that it needs to pay €500,000 a year to a person whereas, perhaps, the Minister for Health could not do so? Perhaps the Minister can do so. That is the question I am asking. Does the amendment change the freedom available to set terms...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I know that. That is not the question I am asking. I am asking whether the board will have more latitude in setting terms and conditions than would be the case with the Minister.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Minister of State.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Report Stage is too late for a debate. Can we have a briefing note before Report Stage?

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Minister of State.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: If I have understood the amendment correctly, I think it is a very sensible amendment. The paragraph relates to the chief executive coming before the Oireachtas, so mainly to this committee, I imagine, and probably the Committee of Public Accounts. There is a get-out clause, which says that the chief executive officer "shall not be required to give an account before a Committee of any...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I probably should have spoken sooner.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: Apologies. Maybe we have moved on procedurally but the Minister of State has not answered the question.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: For what it is worth, I wish to add to the sentiments expressed. Deputy O'Reilly's amendment is a good one. The Minister of State did not answer the question and read out a single sentence.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: This is becoming farcical, quite frankly. If the Minister of State cannot engage in the substance of the amendments then she should not be here.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I know but a single sentence in response is ridiculous. Either the Government is able to engage in the materiality of amendments on Committee Stage or it is not; if it not then it should not be here.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: On page 15, paragraph 21E(2) of the Bill states: The chief executive officer shall not be required to give an account before a Committee of any matter relating to the general administration of the Executive which is, or has been, or may at a future time be, the subject of proceedings before a court or tribunal in the State. Why does the Government feel the need to provide such blanket...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: The Minister of State's reply does not clarify anything. I do not understand what her reply means. What does it mean?

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: No. I heard the reply but I do not understand what it means. I ask the Minister of State to provide the committee with an explanation of why the head of the HSE would not need to come before a committee and can use the excuse of a subject, potentially, in the future being the subject of a court case, which most things in the HSE are.

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: How would future court cases be jeopardised?

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: The Minister of State read out paragraphs (3) and (4), but we are talking about paragraph (2). It gives the chief executive officer of the health system the ability not to appear before any Oireachtas committee to discuss any issue which may at some stage be before the courts. That rules out pretty much everything in the healthcare system. I can understand the committee not bringing in a...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: That is from paragraphs (3) and (4) which lay out the procedural issues involved. The question I am asking is about paragraph (2) and concerns why the Government is choosing to give such extraordinary protection from parliamentary accountability to the chief executive officer of the HSE. The Minister of State said it would, in some way, jeopardise future court cases. Will she explain how...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I will leave it at that because I do not think the Minister of State has an answer. The question is a direct one. Extraordinary protection against parliamentary accountability is being afforded in the paragraph to the chief executive officer of the HSE. The rationale the Minister of State has given is that it is to avoid jeopardising future court cases. I do not understand how discussion...

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: I know that the Minister of State is trying to do her job, but the national children's hospital could easily become the subject of a future court case, as CervicalCheck currently is. There is the matter of Spinraza and other drugs; everything we discuss is, or could be, the subject of a court case. On page 13, section 21B(4)(b)-----

Select Committee on Health: Health Service Executive (Governance) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (20 Feb 2019)

Stephen Donnelly: No, I am speaking to section 8. It states the chief executive officer shall cease to be qualified for office and shall cease to hold office if he or she is convicted of any indictable offence. Could very minor offences such as speeding offences be included in that regard? Such offences could be committed, but they may not mean that a person should be fired. I am looking for clarification...

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