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Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Yes.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: An uneven number is required. One would hope when it comes to the approach taken-----

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I hope when it comes to the approach taken on many issues that the members of the authority will discuss them and on most occasions will reach a consensus and will not have to go to a vote, but if it does go to a vote it is important the authority is not controlled by the legal profession. This is why there are more lay people than members of the legal profession. I hope the authority does...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: What I stated is I have listened to Deputies and am quite willing to reflect on whether it should be 11 or 13. My primary initial concern is that it does not become an unwieldy body and this is very important. There is the issue as to the desirability or not of IBEC and ICTU having representatives on it. I am quite willing to reflect on this issue this side of Report Stage.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I think this could produce stasis. We must have an authority with an uneven number and this is the norm. There is nothing unusual about it.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: As I stated I am willing to reflect on whether the number should be 11 or 13 and whether the social partners should be nominating bodies. It will be interesting, following this discussion, to see what reaction those interested in the Bill may give to this particular suggestion. I will simply reflect on the issue. I cannot take it any further.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 10: In page 13, subsection (2)(a), lines 6 and 7, to delete "by the Government." and substitute the following:"by the Government, a resolution approving such appointment having been passed by Dáil Éireann and by Seanad Éireann."

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 11: In page 13, to delete lines 11 to 14 and substitute the following:"(3) In appointing a person to be a member of the Authority, the Government shall satisfy themselves that he or she has knowledge of, and expertise in relation to, one or more of the following:".

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 13: In page 13, lines 24 to 39, page 14 and in page 15, lines 1 to 16, to delete subsections (4) to (15) and substitute the following:“(4) Of the persons appointed to be members of the Authority—(a) a majority shall be lay persons of whom—(i) 1 shall be nominated for appointment by the Citizens Information Board, (ii) 1 shall be nominated for...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: It is appropriate that we have nominating bodies. Why would the President of the High Court be given that role? This involves lay people who will be appointed by a series of bodies whose engagements are quite clear in the areas of expertise they have. They are not bodies that are directly part and parcel of the legal profession. They are separate from it but they should have sufficient...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I have not heard any argument yet as to why it should be 13 rather than 11. I appreciate the number is somewhat arbitrary but one does not want an authority that is unnecessarily large or unwieldy so, to some extent, this is a subjective judgment. There is no ideal number for the authority’s operation and, looking at the balance to be struck and the nature of the representation from...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Among the nominating bodies to which we are referring are the Competition Authority and the Consumers' Association of Ireland. They have insights into the area to which the Deputy refers. I expect that the legal professions may nominate some of those because they would have an insight into those areas. I am not convinced that we should add IBEC and the ICTU. I will reflect on that,...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: The answer is that the Minister of the day does not have an influence. The people appointed have to satisfy the relevant criteria specified in the legislation and their appointment has to be approved by resolution of both Houses. It would be open to either House to decide on some individual and to effectively reject the nominations, given there has to be a resolution. Members on all sides...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: We are dealing with the appointment of people to the legal services regulatory authority, the modalities of that and the organisations that might make appointments. It is a matter of principle in the Bill that there will be an independent regulatory authority. Some of the issues raised by the Deputy relate to much later sections. If as a matter of principle it is accepted by members that...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 3: In page 11, subsection (1), line 2, to delete "of solicitors".This is a technical amendment to ensure the bills of cost referred to are any bills of cost issued in the past or in the future by solicitors or barristers.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 4: In page 11, between lines 40 and 41, to insert the following subsection:"(3) For the purposes of this Act, a person is a lay person on a particular date if, on that date, he or she—(a) is not a practising solicitor or a practising barrister, and (b) where he or she has previously been a practising solicitor or a practising barrister, he or she—(i) has not...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 5: In page 11, lines 41 to 44, to delete subsection (1) and substitute the following:"(1) A regulation or order made under this Act may contain such incidental, supplementary and consequential provisions as the Minister or the Authority considers necessary or expedient.".The amendment removes the current reference to the legal practitioners disciplinary tribunal as it is...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 6: In page 12, subsection (1), line 19, to delete "by this Act" and substitute "by or under this Act".This is a technical drafting amendment the Parliamentary Counsel has deemed necessary for this provision.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Several of the proposed amendments to section 8 are intended to increase the actual and perceived independence of the authority from the Government. When the Bill was published in 2011, concerns were raised about the issue of how the members of the new authority would be appointed and the independence of that process. These concerns emanated largely from the fact that the Bill, as...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I do not envisage changes to section 1 because of changes to other sections.

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