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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: To clarify that point, there are two elements to the legislation, the residential and commercial. The commercial element refers to section 372AAC and always allowed people to get relief on any commercial premises. Subsection 3, which we are deleting, addressed a particular situation where the commercial property was in the basement of a pre-1915 building with two stories over the basement....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: Yes.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: That is correct. At the time, the logic was that we were talking about Georgian houses. We were trying to ensure that if works were being carried out, there would be a residential living element to each of the Georgian houses. Obviously, we have broadened that now to all pre-1915 dwellings and therefore we do not see the same necessity.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: That is the case, but I would argue that the €200,000 tax relief limit on the commercial side that we have put in place will help with achieving EU state aid approval. It also makes it more restrictive in terms of commercial development than it was previously.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: It is an important point.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I think our wires are slightly crossed here. As I stated earlier, there has always been a commercial element. There were previously under this scheme commercial elements, which, as I outlined, complement but are separate to the residential.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: No. To clarify, the commercial-residential synergy was required only in the Georgian houses, not in the other buildings.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I am trying to get the exact reference.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: No. I am saying that the obligation on a premises being renovated for commercial purposes to also include the living area related to the Georgian properties. The scheme is now being extended beyond Georgian properties.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: It could be either.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: It can be either-or. There is a specific provision in relation to Georgian houses.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: Yes. What we have done in this Bill, which we had not done previously and which comes back, I suppose, to the heart of Deputy Michael McGrath's comments earlier about the EU state aid, is limit the tax relief for commercial activity to €200,000, which is an important component in seeking approval.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: It depends on how one defines living. If one wants someone to live in a community, he or she must be able to avail of local services. There are many parts of cities that have run down and derelict buildings. We need people to live within communities where they can function and be sustained. The concept of this, as I outlined in my comments, is not to provide relief for large-scale...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: Yes. However, it is capped at the €200,000 relief, which has not existed previously. Section 372AAC deals with commercial premises and capital allowances for the conversion or refurbishment of certain commercial premises. There has always been a standalone provision.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I thank Deputy McGrath for his two amendments which, as I understand them, break down as suggestions. The first suggestion is that the residential element of the relief be broadened out to those who are not ordinarily resident in the property and the second is that the application of the relief be broadened out beyond the six cities which the Minister for Finance currently has in mind. On...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: The passage of this Bill is an important step in terms of approval for this initiative from the European Commission under state aid rules. When the pilot initiative was announced by the Minister he made it clear that it was dependent on an independent cost-benefit analysis and approval from the European Commission under state aid rules. The cost-benefit analysis has been completed recently...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: The Government works very hard for Bray every day. We are going to be very cautious in the implementation of tax relief in the property area. The concept is regeneration of cities in respect of which, as articulated by Deputy Michael McGrath, populations therein are declining. The purpose of this initiative is to bring our cities back to life. Thankfully, this decline is not evident in...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I recall that the Deputy raised this issue during the Second Stage debate. He is suggesting that the living part of the initiative is at risk of being diluted in some way. His amendment appears to have been designed to reinstate this element as well as deleting the requirement that claimants, under the commercial element of the initiative, must provide certain information to Revenue before...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: No, he has not outlined it yet. It was in his budget speech, but the detail of it has not yet been outlined.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Simon Harris: I will seek an update and revert to the Chairman. On budget day the Minister indicated he hopes to do this in the coming months.

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