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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: It is a very good suggestion. The questions and follow-on questions have already been set. My understanding is that much of the paperwork around the census has already been printed in preparation for what would have gone ahead this year. I will ask my officials to take the Deputy's suggestion back as part of considerations for the 2026 census. We obviously want to get an in-depth picture...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: I will ask officials in the Department and the CSO to communicate to the Deputy the options that will be available to people when they are asked that particular question. I do not have that information to hand, but I will try to get it to the Deputy.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: Which office did the Chair reference?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: On Vote 2, which is the Department of the Taoiseach, the Chair will see there are currently no plans to engage consultancy services in 2021 but provision is made for them. No expenditure was incurred in the provision for 2020, for example. On the CSO-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: The provisional outturn for 2020 was zero.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: To be clear, provision was made for that last year but nothing was spent on that last year.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: It is a provision. There are currently no plans to engage consultancy services in 2021, but a provision is made in case the need arises.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: On the Office of the Attorney General, the subhead includes provision for information technology-related consultancy fees and for other consultancies. The savings in 2020 arose from fewer than anticipated audits as the office outsources its internal audit function. The 2021 allocation reflects the fact that the office expects a full list of a series of internal audits to be undertaken...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: Each section and each Vote, whether it is the CSO or the Department of the Taoiseach, must report on each subhead where a provision is made, regardless of whether it is spent. It is for accounting purposes. I will ask that a detailed report be sent to the Chairman on the mechanics of how any consultancy is sourced. I will ask that this information be provided to the committee.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: Yes. That is correct.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: I understand there have been two Secretaries General for many years now. The Secretary General to the Government is, as the Chairman is aware, Mr. Martin Fraser, who appeared before the committee yesterday. The second Secretary General is Mr. John Callinan, who has responsibility for EU and international affairs primarily. This has been the case for a number of years, I do not know exactly...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: I can get all of that information submitted to the Chairman and the committee. There is no problem to do that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: Yes, I can go through them now if the Chairman wishes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: There is the Moriarty tribunal and then there are the Cregan and Cooke investigations. As the committee is aware, the Moriarty tribunal was established in October 1997 and published its first report in 2006, with its second report in March 2011. Following completion of its final report the tribunal is dealing with applications for third-party costs. The tribunal is also subject to a number...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: As the Chair is aware, work is ongoing to finalise the costs and the continuity of the Moriarty tribunal, to which he referred. I can ask the Department officials who are directly liaising with the Moriarty tribunal to submit a note to the committee about that interaction but until third-party costs are addressed, it will not be able to conclude.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: That is the balance which is being struck. The ninth interim report was given on 8 April 2021 and the timeframe has been extended to 31 October 2021. The Taoiseach granted that extension, given the apparent advanced stage of preparation of its final report. If that had not been granted it would have effectively dissolved the commission without providing any findings, with limited return...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: I acknowledge the Chair's concerns and the frustrations of the family. I was a member of the previous Oireachtas justice committee, and I am aware of the significant difficulty and trauma this ongoing issue is causing the family. I know the Chair has spoken about it regularly. I will reflect that to the Taoiseach and will ask him to follow up with the Chair directly. I acknowledge...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: I will follow up on those matters and ask the Office of the Taoiseach to respond to the Chairman.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2021 (Resumed)
Vote 1 - President's Establishment (Revised)
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Revised)
Vote 3 - Office of the Attorney General (Revised)
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office (Revised)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Revised)
Vote 6 - Office of the Chief State Solicitor (Revised)
(3 Jun 2021)

Jack Chambers: My understanding is that legal fees arising in any particular Department would be dealt with by the State Claims Agency or the Office of the Attorney General, for example. They have set out the detail under the various subheads but I will ask that a note on the matter be submitted to the committee.

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