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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Sorry, Deputy, we cannot deal with the tendering process as it is subject to legal proceedings. We can only deal with the actual issue which, in fairness, Deputy Healy-Rae has raised, is around the quality-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: The tendering process is not up for discussion today at this committee. It is subject to a court process. What we can refer to, as Deputy Healy-Rae has done, is the quality of the product.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Both Deputies will have the opportunity pose supplementary questions, particularly as the presentation was a long one. The Deputies will have the right to respond.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Deputy Healy-Rae is a member of this committee. When we get the responses to the 24 questions, we will discuss them at a committee meeting. We reserve the right to invite the witnesses to return to clarify matters.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Deputy, when we receive the response from Irish Water, we will circulate the questions and the responses to all the committee members. Deputy Harrington is a former member of this committee but it will require a decision of the committee before we can circulate the responses to him. I am confident that we will get the information next Wednesday and we will give it to him after the meeting...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Let me set the finishing time for 6.30 p.m., which allows members ten minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I have a question that I wish to put to the officials from the Department. The Department has issued guidelines which we assume are based on the engineering assessment of best practice. Today it was said that those guidelines are not binding. What is the point of guidelines, if they are not binding? Most people who are building their homes or running businesses understand there is a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Mr. O' Connor must appreciate the point that has been made. What is the point in making a recommendation? One of the issues that got us into the massive economic crisis of recent times was light-touch regulation or the non-existence of regulation. Here we have a Department that has gone to the trouble, we assume, of establishing engineering standards and issuing recommendations but these...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Essentially, from the evidence given by Irish Water and the Department, we know there are guidelines but they do not have to be followed. They are not binding. Irish Water has stated that repeatedly and Mr. O'Connor has confirmed it. It is a matter of profound concern that we have a Department which is responsible for good practice, regulation and oversight and which issued recommendations...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: In fairness, that is absolutely correct. The point Deputy Healy-Rae has made is not supplementary to the point I raised. That said, I will ask Irish Water to respond to Deputy Healy-Rae's point in a moment. I believe the Deputy is referring to documentation from Thames Water. He is referring to a Thames Water, company-specific addendum which states that boundary boxes of class B may be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: What is the point of recommendations that are not binding?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Obviously, the Department issues guidelines and recommendations to local authorities on a wide range of matters regularly, as is its right. Does Mr. O'Connor not believe it would also be prudent to issue to Irish Water guidelines that are binding and that protect the public interest?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Is Mr. O'Connor aware of any standards relating to these-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Yes, but is Mr. O'Connor aware of any standards that have a statutory footing and that are binding on Irish Water in this regard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will put the question again. Is Mr. O'Connor aware of any standards that are grounded in legislation, that are statutory and binding and to which Irish Water must adhere?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I ask that Mr. O'Connor consult his Department colleagues on this issue. The Irish Water representatives will come back to us within a week with responses to questions that were put to them so perhaps Mr. O'Connor could issue the committee with a response to the broad question, which is whether the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government is aware of any statutory...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Yes, absolutely.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will give an example-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I must interrupt for one second. That is an interesting point but if a local authority wishes to introduce rules and regulations relating to wind energy, for example, the Department can enforce its own guidelines, even though that is a matter vested in the local authority. There is precedent, therefore, of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government enforcing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Non-Compliant Installations of Water Meter Boxes: Irish Water and Department of Environment, Community and Local Government (23 Sep 2015)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Mr. Vaughan will appreciate our frustration. Today, in evidence given to this committee, Irish Water confirmed that there are recommendations or guidelines in place but that they are not binding. That is the difficulty. People are puzzled as to why the Department would issue any guidelines-----

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