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Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: I am sorry to press the Minister but I need to. The public deserves that the Minister would address this more specifically, with the assistance of her officials. They are doing Trojan work, and I have noticed them here for the Children and Family Relationship Bill as well. They are working on many issues that are obviously connected to that extent. The officials have just moved chairs...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister is contradicting herself in a way by arguing that this issue will be left vague and uncertain because we do not know what the Supreme Court will decide. She chose her words carefully when she stated the referendum was about access to marriage. My point, however, is that she did not say it was only about access to marriage. I have access to a legal opinion on this question to...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: Senator Norris can always be relied on to say something interesting, if perhaps not relevant.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: We know that some Muslims hold that view. It is all about sharing the love. Assuming the referendum passes, let us take as an example the case of a small business which is asked to provide a particular type of catering service that would have the couple who own the business assume a hands-on role at a celebrity same-sex marriage. If the couple were to decide they preferred not to provide...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: On a point of order, nobody is talking about depriving people of a service solely on the grounds of their sexual orientation.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: That distinction was made clearly. Senator Power is obviously not listening to the debate in full.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: Senator Conway has a great gift we can all learn from. He manages to say affirming things about people on all sides of the debate in the Seanad and there is never the slightest tone of needling, unpleasantness, insult or moral outrage. We could all learn from him.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: It will help him at the ballot box as well.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: That is not a promise. Senator White could possibly learn a thing or two from him as well. Senator Barrett might very well be right in what he says, and I would like to be associated with the general feeling of positivity he has towards people. I and others have made it very clear that whatever reservations we have about this proposal, we want a culture where there is complete love and...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: The point is relevant because Senator Power does not seem to understand that I certainly have no truck with any discrimination against people on grounds of their sexual orientation. If a person is refused a service because he or she is gay, the person refusing the service should be prosecuted. I do not think Senator Power believes me when I say that.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: She has not given evidence of understanding the distinction between-----

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: I am just trying to explain the position. I will not refer to other Senators again, but when they are so enthused as to come from their offices to have a go I think I should at least be able to answer. It should be very clear. We heard Senator Norris rightly pooh-pooh the provocation that was involved in the Ashers Bakery situation, but let us remember that the business is probably in...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: They are being pursued by the legal authorities in the North. That is why these issues are relevant. I appeal to whatever latent sense of tolerance there is in the Senators who disagree with me on this issue to please let people go their own way, even if the Senators think their concerns are despicable. The only way we can have a tolerant society is if we allow each other freedom to live...

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: Senator Zappone is entitled to go her own way.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: Would she tolerate the teacher who wants to be able to teach that a father and mother is the best thing for bringing up a child? Should that teacher, in Senator Zappone's view, be in peril of his or her job? Those are the issues.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: What Senator Averil Power has said is quite removed from the amendment I am proposing.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: I am just making the point that sauce for the goose has been very much sauce for the gander.

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: The Minister could, perhaps, clarify the-----

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: In regard to the case I cited, Senator Averil Power may be interested in the reply, would it be discrimination on the gender ground or the sexual orientation ground where people felt unable to provide services in the context of a same sex marriage event?

Seanad: An Bille um an gCeathrú Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Comhionannas Pósta) 2015: Céim an Choiste - Thirty-fourth Amendment of the Constitution (Marriage Equality) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (27 Mar 2015)

Rónán Mullen: Would it be discriminated against in the context of a same sex marriage event?