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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: It did not make it available because it decided that this was something the public needed to know.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: It is therefore not thanks to Ms Boate that we know this; it is thanks to the people who made the freedom of information request.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Somebody has the-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Would the regulator have been in breach of the licence were it actually to provide the information the Comptroller and Auditor General provided us-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----that only 2% was going back?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: That would have been in breach of the licence.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Would Ms Boate not have ever considered that that is a problem in terms of public disclosure? The regulator is frustrated, under Ms Boate's reading of the legislation. Would she not have highlighted that in an annual report to say it is something that needs to change because the public have a right to know this information and she feels precluded from providing it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: With all due respect, I am still trying to figure out what exactly Ms Boate's job is and what is the regulator's role. We have learned that the regulator does not issue directives and publishes information if it is in line with the freedom of information request. There are elements of the legislation that prevent the regulator from publishing what I would consider to be information that is...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: The regulator has never sought new powers. All of what Ms Boate has just said is just her reading out her terms of reference. I have missed some of this meeting but to my mind and in any of the interactions I have seen, Ms Boate has not set out in any meaningful way how the regulator actually protects consumers and takes proactive measures to ensure the reputation of the lottery system...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: That is not what I am asking. It is with regard to the management and procedure and whether or not the mechanisms being used are actually fair. That did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes. It was the national lottery itself that announced there would be a must-win draw or draws in order to-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----end the cycle.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am not talking about the practicalities of drawing the balls out of the drum.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: The national lottery changed the game to make it, essentially, more difficult to win, which is what it did by adding in an additional two balls, and then it proceeded simply to have jackpots not won for long periods of time. It changed that system by introducing must-win draws, but it did that at the behest of public pressure coming from this House and elsewhere. It was not from any...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. O'Donohoe outlined the rationale for the loan arrangements from the perspective of the company. From the perspective of the regulator, is there an issue with that mechanism of taking out a loan with an interest rate nine times above what is available in the market?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: If the interest rate was 20%, 30% or 40%, would that not be of concern?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: At what percentage would it be appropriate for the regulator to make an intervention?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: It is on the basis of financial viability, so as long as they do not bust the company, they can waste money. Is that the situation?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: As the Chair has said, if you take out a loan at a rate of 9% and a much lower rate was available, you are essentially wasting money.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2021: National Lottery Fund (24 Nov 2022)

Matt Carthy: They could have.

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