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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is here in appendix 6.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: The rationale-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: We need to write to the HSE. Deputy Munster has asked a good question. We know that the Government invited the world and its mother to apply for PPPs in a list of locations throughout the country. That was a policy decision but we can ask the HSE to set out the criteria that were used. I would love to see the whole-life cost of a PPP. If it is a 20-year contract, how much is it going to...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It will complement it. Clearly it is going to be on our work programme.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: Deputy Cullinane is next, followed by Deputy Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: Deputy Connolly on the PPP issue. There are many other items in this correspondence.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will return to the correspondence and move as quickly as we can through the remaining points, although some will require further discussion. The first point relates to a question on the number of people looking for step-down services at a particular date, which is replied to in No.1. No. 2 refers to the budget for home care services, including the percentage increase in money terms and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is very simple. Agencies are contracted to provide a specified number of hours of service. The HSE wants four hours today, 30 hours this week and so on. The hours can be added up and converted to the WTE. The HSE should know what it is paying for, although I accept that it may not be as easy as it might seem. However, we should know how many staff are involved in delivering the health...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: Representatives from the HSE did appear before the committee regarding its annual accounts. Much information is still flowing from that engagement and we will have to have another meeting with that organisation regarding its financial position.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would like the public to listen to this type of public service language. The question asked of the HSE was whether it provides loans. The reply stated the HSE does not provide loans to section 38 organisations. In some circumstances cash disbursements are accelerated beyond the agreed monthly profiles to ensure continuity of service. The HSE, therefore does not give loans but it does...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am reading from page 5. In 2018, the HSE gave cash to 27 organisations and the total provided was €73.6 million.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is going way up. These are not loans, they are just cash accelerations. It is fantastic. It is within our remit to write and seek details of the 27 agencies funded last year, the 25 funded the previous year and the nine the year before that, including how much money each organisation received in cash acceleration. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is the budget for the section 38 organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: We do not have representatives from the HSE here today but we did have them here just before the summer recess. About €4 billion is paid out, according to the HSE's financial statements.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: That includes some of the bigger voluntary hospitals. Let us be clear that is the biggest amount.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: I forgot to put a bit into the question. We also want to know how many of these cash disbursement acceleration payments were outstanding at the end of each of the years concerned. Let us suppose that an organisation is going to get €120 million to deliver a service over a year. Let us say it is €10 million a year. It is also known that there is a problem and we want to know...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is interesting that, apart from everything the HSE is paying to the State Claims Agency, there are items not included that are covered by the State Claims Agency. We will ask the agency to give us a breakdown in respect of the principal organisations and what is covered and not covered. This all emerged at our earlier meeting. There are aspects that are dealt with directly by the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes: fire insurance, breakdown of equipment or damage to equipment.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (19 Sep 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, so it might not come under the State Claims Agency. Let us say-----

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