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Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: What was said?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: The famous meeting took place, I think from reading the book again, between 10.15 p.m. and 2 a.m., so it was a four hour meeting.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Before he arrived, was Mr. McWilliams preparing any thoughts or views as to what he might say to him?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: So Mr. McWilliams was preparing himself for his-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: On that very point, did Mr. McWilliams take a note of the meeting or after-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I understand but after he left that night, did-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Further on in the book, I think on page 16, Mr. McWilliams says he got the impression that the Minister was quite isolated from his officials and sceptical of the advice he was getting. Briefly, why did he come away with that impression?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That leads me to my next question. Again, on page 16, it says the Minister asked Mr. McWilliams what he would do. I want the witness to briefly outline what his response was.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Yes, please.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: What time limit did Mr. McWilliams have in mind?

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: On page 22 of Follow the Money, Mr. McWilliams said that because the Irish banks' funding had become unstable, if their funding as well as their deposits were not guaranteed, they would come crashing down and that they would have to come up with the money immediately for people's deposits. When he spoke to the Minister about this, did he include subordinated debt in the guarantee, as well as-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Deputy McGrath asked questions earlier about insolvency versus liquidity and Mr. McWilliams indicated that on the night of the meeting on 17 to 18 September, he did not have any evidence that there were insolvency issues within some of the------

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I put a quote to Mr. McWilliams from Follow the Money. It states: "The Minister indicated that the problem was more acute. The most revealing thing about our conversation was that it was AIB not Anglo Irish that had the most severe funding problems".

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: What I want to ask is whether it raised the fact that there were solvency issues rather than a liquidity issue in AIB. He has said it did.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I understand. My final question relates to an article I have just found from the Irish Examineron Monday, 2 November 2009, which was written by Seán Connolly, the political correspondent. The article was on a war of words that erupted between Mr. McWilliams and the late Minister, Brian Lenihan. It was a year and a bit after the guarantee. I refer to a specific quote from the late...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: He indicated furthermore that he really did not go out specifically to meet Mr. McWilliams and said he happened to be in that part of the city.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I refer to Deputy Michael McGrath's questions about Professor McDonough's economic thesis. Professor McDonough identified South Korea as an example of a banking sector that worked. There must have been a successful society or country at some stage in history on which he is basing his arguments. Most financial theories are based on an example that worked. I am not asking him to identify...

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: Does Professor McDonough have examples-----

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: That is a fair point. To be clear, I was asking Professor McDonough whether he could provide examples of where the alternative to the criticisms he made in his presentation actually worked. He has not pointed to any alternative, bar the banking sector in South Korea.

Committee of Inquiry into the Banking Crisis: Context Phase (26 Feb 2015)

John Paul Phelan: I will ask a completely different question regarding the Irish crisis and financial collapse. Does Professor McDonough think our narrow tax base and, in particular, the absence of a property tax played a role in what happened in Ireland?

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