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Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: You will be paying PRSI only if you are not drawing down a contributory pension. If you are drawing an occupational pension, you will not be paying PRSI on it because I was of the view you paid it-----

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: On the non-contributory pension, if you have a modest income you will not be paying PRSI, if it is under the threshold.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: Yes, therefore a self-employed contributor will be unlikely to have 40 years of self-employed contributions until 2028. However, due to the phased transition, the financial impact should be limited specifically because a self-employed person drawing down their pension at age 66 in 2025, who would have received the maximum rate under the yearly average, will see their pension reduced by...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: For the full year, it will cost €64 million.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: I take the point. I was out meeting carers on Monday. I might as well tell the Deputy this. They got an increase of €12 a week. They were happy with the increase, obviously, and they are getting the lump sum payment this week. That is €400. A lady said to me that she got the increase and then she got a letter from the local authority to say her rent was going up. I take...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: That changed in 2009. I have not changed it since.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: This came in in the Finance Bill. It was decided there would be a charge on share options so I had to transfer it in to make sure the PRSI would be applicable to that as well, because it is seen as an income.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: Then you have to pay it.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: Maybe my official will answer for me. It would be easier.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: That is okay. I will leave it.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: I will get the answer. If you are on a non-contributory pension and want to access the deferred pension, you can do that. We did not want to block people out of it.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: We did not want to block them out of it.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: If they are on non-contributory, it is unlikely they will be liable for PRSI.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: I will speak to the Deputy offline on this afterwards. We will go through it in detail.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: We will give it to the Deputy.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: When we are finished here, we can go through it in detail. It is a simple enough explanation.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: Five years.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: We will, on foot of the Pensions Commission report – and it is the right thing to do – make it available to people to get a list of their contributions online. They can pick it up. We will not be sending it out but it will be available. We will encourage people to look at their contributions. There is no point in getting to age 66 and realising you have a lot of gaps. They...

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: We will look at that. I do not know why it is not on it.

Select Committee on Social Protection: Social Welfare (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Nov 2023)

Heather Humphreys: That is fair enough. I do not know what kind of work that would involve for the Department so I will have to look at it. It might be a massive job for the Department to have staff sending out all of those letters, and then somebody will say, “The Department did not tell me so it is your fault, not mine.” The Deputy knows himself. In any case, we can look at it.

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