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Written Answers — Department of Education and Skills: Departmental Data (13 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: 1380. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills the number of instances in which his Department availed of services and or consultancy and or advices from a company (details supplied) in the past ten years to date; the costs of same; the number of contracts between the company and his Department; and the duration and costs of same. [28198/23]

Written Answers — Department of Rural and Community Development: Departmental Data (13 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: 1400. To ask the Minister for Rural and Community Development the number of staff seconded to her Department from a company (details supplied) in the past ten years to date; the title and/or role they filled; and the duration of same. [28184/23]

Written Answers — Department of Rural and Community Development: Departmental Data (13 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: 1401. To ask the Minister for Rural and Community Development the number of instances in which her Department availed of services and or consultancy and or advices from a company (details supplied) in the past ten years to date; the costs of same; the number of contracts between the company and her Department; and the duration and costs of same. [28203/23]

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: On that point, has a cost-benefit analysis been done and, if so, has leasing been included as well as HAP and RAS? Leasing is very current. I can see it in my area, where a whole estate may be leased. This is being done for 25 years, with a rent review every four years, at almost market rents, and then the house will be returned to the developer after it has been refurbished before the end...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: When a cost-benefit analysis is being done, have aspects I described been counted in? Have the costs of HAP, RAS and leasing been considered?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Doyle is clearly not going to answer the question in relation to cost-benefit analysis in respect of HAP and RAS

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I am sorry, Mr. Doyle, even if I had 20 minutes, it would not be enough time, so I am going to move on. I do not understand why the leasing was even permitted in the first place. I cannot imagine how a cost-benefit analysis, in a time when the Department has been not constrained, would have found this to be an appropriate policy position. I will leave the matter there. On social homes,...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: There are tiny numbers in proportion to the crisis. This is not a new crisis but one that has been going on for years. Mr. Doyle opened his comments today by talking about the underspend, which is very hard to comprehend at a time when we have targets below the housing need. The Taoiseach has said we have a deficit of 250,000 houses. The targets in place now are below this need, and we...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I reiterate that in this environment I think it is criminal to see an underspend, but I will move on because, as I said, the time is very short. Regarding the first home schemes, Mr. Doyle mentioned the areas where the pressure is acute, including Dublin, Cork, Kildare, Meath and Wicklow. I suspect there are very few of these properties in Dublin city and that they are in the Fingal,...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Yes, and I am looking for information on the other one as well, the help-to-buy scheme.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: If the witnesses would, please, because it is very relevant. Essentially, the population is being dispersed. I used these statistics in the Dáil yesterday. In the 1996 census Dublin city accounted for 13% of the national population; it accounts for 11.5% now. The population is decreasing, it is a different type of population and there is a duplication in terms of providing services,...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I could have predicted that, but it would be very useful to have the evidence. May I ask Mr. Doyle about something we addressed very briefly at the last meeting he was at, namely his own salary claim? Is that resolved?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: So it is not resolved.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Apart from Mr. Doyle, why should there be a separate process for particular grades in the public service over and above public service pay agreements?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: How come there is even a potential pay claim then?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: To be honest with Mr. Doyle, the reason I ask the question is that there is another Secretary General for whom there is a very different arrangement, and there has been a concern about knock-on consequences. This is not just for other Secretaries General, but if it starts at the top, are there consequences then for feeding down where there is a particular level? Is there an assistant...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. That would be helpful

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I would not expect them to be specific to one person. I think they should relate to grades.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I want to pick up on the points raised by Deputy Brady and the Cathaoirleach in regard to the National Building Control and Market Surveillance Office. We have a history of self-regulation that has been disastrous. We pay for failure but we will not pay to prevent failure. When the witnesses talked about the 100 building control staff in local authorities being part of this process, I...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The replies Mr. Doyle gave earlier and the experience of the National Building Control and Market Surveillance Office do not fill me with confidence. Will he give us a ballpark idea of how this will work, without confusing the issue of the building control from a local authority perspective and the regulation of the materials, which is an entirely different thing?

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