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Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Mr. Lynch had an email prior to 17 March looking at potential candidates to replace Mr. Tubridy before he resigned.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Who sent Mr. Lynch the email?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Mr. Lynch might provide those emails, over and back, on that date which was prior to 17 March, if he could, as regards who instigated and who first put forward the idea that they needed to be looking at a list of replacement.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: That is fine. In relation to the current contract for Mr. Tubridy, as of today, where is it at and how long do we expect to see Mr. Oliver Callan presenting his show?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: In the previous conversation, Mr. Lynch was not prepared to give the name of the person with regard to the car. At what level within the organisation, executive level, board level, staff level or talent level, was the person who had that car for five years who returned it? I totally understand Mr. Lynch cannot give a person's name but it is justifiable for me to ask at what level within the...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: There will be much speculation as to who that person is. If Mr. Lynch narrowed it down and gave us the role of that person, it would rule out many other people who are staff within the organisation. I again ask Mr. Lynch whether he can tell us whether it is a board member, executive, talent or staff.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: I assume by that, there is a narrow group of people it did say what it was in. There is a very small group of people within that.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: I can read into that. The crux of this is trust among the public. To be honest, if the public is looking in here today, it has got worse. At the core of this lie the barter accounts. In the past half hour, the outgoing CFO has stated it was under her control. The new CFO, who took office in 2020, Mr. Collins, said it was not under the control of the CFO and that he brought it under his...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Auditors have been mentioned. My understanding is an internal audit would have been carried out within the accounts. The role of that person is to be independent. At any stage over the years, was the fact it was not under the control of the CFO ever flagged as an issue, whether it was a high, medium or low risk? Was this ever highlighted at any stage by RTÉ's internal auditor or any...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: As chair of the committee, did Ms O'Leary have any fears about the way that was being handled or was she unaware of the account?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Ms Doherty stated it is a broken system - a broken system she chaired for a significant number of years. I mentioned last week and Mr. Lynch made a comment that it was not the remit of the executive. This committee nominated Larry Bass to be a member of the board of directors, as is its duty as a media committee representing the taxpayer. The reality is the board did not want him. There...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: We spoke about staff wages. All through the years, there were significantly high wages at executive level within the organisation. There are more than 110 managers in a company of 1,800 employees, which is extremely high when you look at any other company around the country. As chair of the board all through those years, could Ms Doherty justify the significant number of these roles and...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: With regard to the wage levels for the talent end of it, I know a Bill will be debated in the Seanad in about half an hour that would put a cap on those significant wages. We think €400,000 or €500,000 is high. Ten years ago, it was €700,000, €800,000 or €900,000. Would Ms Ní Raghallaigh be supportive of a cap?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Down through the years, the board has been self-evaluated. Do the witnesses think this is the right way to evaluate how a board is working - to evaluate yourselves?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: We are looking at the figures relating to Toy Show The Musical. I know this committee previously queried the musical and how its timing clashed with Christmas pantomimes that had been funded by the State. Of the 20,000 tickets, 9,000 were either promotional or complimentary, so 45% of the people who attended did so free of charge. It seems an outstanding number of tickets to give out. "The...

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: This is the person who is being paid €500,000 by the taxpayer and who is working for RTÉ. RTÉ is taking a risk, as Mr. Coveney said, in putting on a show. The person who presents the show that is called “The Late Late Toy Show” and who promotes it was not willing to engage.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: He declined to get involved with a show that RTÉ was putting forward at significant financial risk to the company. He declined.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: I ask Ms Ní Raghallaigh to come back in. We have to get the trust of people back in RTÉ, which is a public broadcasting company. Does she feel there needs to be widespread change at the top level, both at board level and at executive board level, for her to continue in her role in a new RTÉ going forward?

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: I have two questions. Is the internal auditor who did not highlight anything still in the role? Yes or no? Yes. They are still in the role despite over the years never having highlighted any issue that is now the cause of this.

Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport And Media: Transparency of RTÉ Expenditure of Public Funds and Governance Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (5 Jul 2023)

Micheál Carrigy: Their role is to highlight high, medium or low risk-----

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