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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It is an average.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I understand.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Yes, even in a temporary capacity.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I appreciate all of Deputy Funchion's comments and the spirit in which she makes them. It is important to state that it is an average payment, in light of some of the Deputy's comments. I am trying to be explicit in responding to what she is saying. This has been very difficult for people, with incredible stress and lots of pressure. A substantial portion of it comes from the additional...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Yes, I think so. I will hand over to Ms McNally. It is a good question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I know, exactly. I thank the Deputy. I am aware of those cases as well. What I am going to say is maybe to try to refashion what I am already putting out there. I quoted the numbers of those who are not part of Early Childhood Ireland, the ones who were with Ironshore Europe. They are the ones that are going to face the increase. I also put on the record based on the information we have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I see, between now and the end of the year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: When the Deputy refers to what "it" is about, there are two separate lists. There is enforcement escalation and the designation of risk in respect of that process; and then the internal risk register that has to do with profiling and the way they profile internally how they schedule their inspections. Those are two separate lists or documents. What Tusla was referring to in its...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: That figure is an average.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It is based on the numbers of children and whether the children are there full-time or part-time. Ms McNally will know if there are other factors.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: We have used this formula for programme support for the past three years.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I do not think so. Ms Corrigan or Ms McNally might respond. Ms Corrigan has been connecting with the underwriter more directly than Ms McNally.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: That is so appropriate.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I agree with the Senator that the challenge and job here is to attract additional insurance companies to provide cover in the childcare sector. That is largely the job of officials, the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy D'Arcy. In general, they have been looking at this issue. I described the kinds of data that we are trying to pull...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Many of the services have access to the insurance scheme. Early Childhood Ireland offers a tightly managed insurance scheme to thousands of services, which enables a good discount of 30%.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: Could the same discount be offered without being a member? I suppose it could but, as the Senator knows, we cannot tell the insurance company what to do.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: I think we could but we cannot tell them what to do.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: On the issue of passing liability to the State Claims Agency, that is a very good suggestion which needs to be examined. As the Senator knows, it would be a huge change. I agree and thank her for her suggestion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Insurance Cover for Crèches: Discussion (18 Dec 2019)

Katherine Zappone: It may be in the mix as part of a medium or longer term solution. To respond to the Senator's first question, if I understood it correctly, generally stronger but still balanced regulation should, over time, reduce risk. If risk is reduced, then costs should also reduce as well. Clearly, poor services may have high claims. I have no doubt that services that are closed due to poor...

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