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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: Yes, there is, but we will deal with that in due course. I will come back to the Deputy. I call Deputy Durkan.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: No, we should move on to Senator Sherlock.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: No, because we are short of time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: Will the Minister quickly comment on the personal note sent to him from Mr. Watt which states: "I understand that you want to advertise the Sec Gen D/Health role as a 'TLAC' competition. Please see booklet attached and, in particular, the section on terms and conditions." What was the relevance of that note?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: In that note, is Mr. Watt pointing out that the salary was not included in the document? I do not understand the reason he would have pointed the Minister to the particular section on terms and conditions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: On the Secretaries General, there seem to be three levels - 1, 2 and 3. Is that correct? Mr. Moloney can respond if he wishes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: The salary for level 1 is the same as the salary for level 2.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: How many Secretaries General are on levels 1, 2 and 3, respectively?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: In that case, I presume the new Secretary General of the Department of Health, whoever he or she may be, will be reporting to someone who is more senior but on a far lower salary.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: They are all on a lower salary.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: All of these people will be on a lower salary than the new Secretary General of the Department of Health.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: How does Mr. Moloney think the other 19 Secretaries General might view this? Might a number of them say, "Hang on now; I am worth it and I should get the increase of €80,000"? Will many of them be having that conversation among themselves at this point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: No. I am asking about their opinions on what is going on. I will leave it at that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: I remind the Deputy of his time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: The Deputy must conclude.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: I ask the Deputy to conclude.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: The Deputy will have to finish, please.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: Deputy Doherty has asked the question. I have no means of cutting him off, so I will have to get a knock-off button for him.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: It is coming up to 5.30 p.m. and we have to vacate the room and end the meeting at that time. I apologise to members that we have not reached the European questions that they wanted to ask. In view of the importance of the other issues the Minister mentioned in his opening statement, I ask him to come back and deal with them at an early date. A number of the members are anxious to get an...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Salary Increase for Position of Secretary General at the Department of Health: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (2 Feb 2021)

John McGuinness: I will ask the clerk to contact the Minister's officials and we will organise an appropriate meeting to deal with all that. Is that agreed? Agreed. Before closing, I will comment generally on what has been discussed. Reform is also part of the committee's agenda. I am of the view that this whole system needs to be reformed. The correspondence from start to finish reflects a cosiness...

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