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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: My apologies were given at the start of the meeting. They were meant to be that I was going to be late rather than not appear. On paragraph 6.4, page 43, I note there is a huge disparity between the legal costs that are paid out by the Department and shows almost €11.7 million was paid but the compensation was just over €490,000. Please explain the disproportionate fees...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: Does the Secretary General not think the legal costs are quite extravagant at €11.7 million? Does that amount mean her Department is paying literally for both sides of the judicial review? Of course the applicant receives legal aid.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: I would say the compensation is lower certainly. What is the success rate in judicial reviews for things like asylum seekers or international protection appeals?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: The Secretary General might submit it because it needs to be-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: It is about value for money and whether we are adjudicating decisions correctly.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: Will Ms McPhillips submit data on the number of appeals taken, the success rate, those that were dismissed and those that were never heard at all for whatever reason, perhaps because they were withdrawn?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: To go back to something that was said earlier, does Ms McPhillips not think these are extravagant costs?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: Okay. Regardless, I would consider that they need to be reduced. When compared with what we see from other Departments, they seem quite high.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: How many of those were then allowed?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: All right. We will leave it there. There were initiatives the Department followed through on to reduce its legal costs.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: What were the challenges?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: I suppose you cannot do much about judicial reviews when it comes to-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: There were 240 appeals taken. Is that figure for 2022?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: How many decisions were actually made?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: If Ms McPhillips could include that figure in her submission to the committee it would help us to develop an understanding.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: That is grand. Last year, we made some recommendations to the Department. One in particular related to a review it was carrying out with regard to international protection applications and how they are dealt with. It was then taking ten months to deal with an application. Has the process been reviewed? Is the timeframe now better?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: The Department's customer portal is now online. No, it is not. It is due to come on stream for 2024. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: What proportion of the €18 million that was allocated for-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: It was allocated to bring the processing of the applications and all of that up to today's standards. How much of that has been spent?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 24 – Justice
(25 May 2023)

Verona Murphy: The Department will be looking for more money.

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