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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: I welcome our guests and thank them for giving of their time. I will begin with questions for the Secretary General. Am I correct that his Department does not provide all central government funds to local authorities but has a responsibility for ensuring an oversight mechanism is in place?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Has any other Department, be it the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Department of Transport or the Department of Rural and Community Development, consulted Mr. Doyle on any issues around oversight within the local authority?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: I will give the example of my local authority, Mayo County Council, regarding issues around control and oversight of funding related to the Department of Rural and Community Development where more than €1.2 million was handed back to the Department. Was Mr. Doyle aware of that issue? Has the Secretary General of that Department contacted Mr. Doyle regarding oversight mechanisms in...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: As part of its internal audit system, there were issues around the spending code and delivering projects. I find it strange Mr. Doyle, as the Secretary General for the Department with responsibility for local government, was not aware of an issue of this significance. It was part of an RTÉ "Prime Time Investigates" programme. It has been a big issue for the local authority . There...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: This was covered in a "Prime Time Investigates" programme.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: I find it difficult that Mr. Doyle, who is the Accounting Officer and Secretary General for the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Yes, but Mr. Doyle has responsibility for the oversight mechanism around the Central Fund. There is no consultation with other Secretaries General who deliver funding to local authorities. I find that difficult to understand. There is a breakdown in that respect. Mr. Doyle's Department has an internal audit committee. Am I correct on that or has Mr. Doyle internal auditors-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Do they engage with other Departments in adopting a holistic approach with respect to local authorities to ensure whatever programmes, be they transport, agriculture or tourism, are being delivered, there is a collaboration and co-operation on internal audit controls? The National Oversight and Audit Commission, NOAC, comes under Mr. Doyle's Department. He discusses items with the director...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: How much interaction does Mr. Doyle’s internal audit team have with NOAC?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: In terms of the management letters Mr. Doyle would review as part of his responsibility within the Department, does he review all management letters issued to local authorities concerning issues around governance, accountability and internal audit control across all local authorities?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Each Department really works in a silo. Where a Department runs a programme within a local authority, it is the Secretary General who is responsible for that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Mr. Doyle would have no visibility on any issues within that local authority as a matter of point?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Does Mr. Doyle not consider there is an issue around oversight if that is the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: What types of reports by the Local Government Audit Service are published and delivered to Mr. Doyle, as Secretary General? He may have answered that question already.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: In the case that another Department finds an issue around control and accountability with regard to use of taxpayers' money within a local authority and it is not picked up by the local government audit team, is the team communicated to with regard to the findings on the issues that have been raised around appropriation of spending codes and use of public money? It is concerning that it is...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: Yes, but the issue is that it was not reported. The issue here is the lack of linkage between the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 3 - Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(23 Jun 2022)

Alan Dillon: It highlights the weakness that is in the current system in local government. Basically, local government is being presented with what it needs to know, rather than the specifics of a certain programme that is delivered by other Departments. That is the challenge that faces the Department's local government audit team in terms of findings. I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to come...

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