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Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: It needs to be very quick because I only have four minutes left and I have two issues I need to get to.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: That is exactly my point. We should have had that information last week. We asked for that last week. In fact, Deputy Shortall spent a long time trying to establish what the estimated figure for PPE was. She was told it was €118 million; as it turns out it was €151 million. I agree with the Minister, but it is now that we are getting the information which vindicates us...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I accept that. Perhaps by next week, the Minister might provide us with a note on when people might expect to be paid.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: We should not pass the buck on any organisation. The responsibility for ensuring prompt payments were made, in my view, rests with the Department. I wish to ask about issues relating to the State Claims Agency. The Minister mentioned that a note on future claims would be sent to us in due course. He also mentioned CervicalCheck and patient safety. Earlier today, the Minister and I had...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I am asking-----

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: The Minister is misunderstanding what I said.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: Yes, but he cannot misinterpret what I said.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: For me, CervicalCheck involves a simple test. Whatever happens in the context of the Bill, one question will have to be answered. It is not about whether any woman requested information. In real time, when Vicky Phelan and all the other women had discordant slides, one of whom found that out by accident when she read her own records, that was part of an audit and that audit had not been...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: We were talking about the State Claims Agency as well and this comes under that.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I had contacted the Minister directly in regard to the State Claims Agency.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I have three more questions. We will support the Supplementary Estimate because we have to, rather than because we want to. Page 11 of the Minister's briefing note makes reference to acute capacity beds and the number of beds that will be put in place this year. We had some discussion on this last week. In fact, a number of weeks ago when some of the Minister's colleagues from the...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: We got that information a couple of weeks ago. I accept that a lot of additional beds have been provided. However, my question concerns the fact that notwithstanding that 1,000 beds have been delivered and 1,200 were funded, some will not be delivered until next year. In the case of Drogheda, there has been a clear bed problem. When is that going to be addressed? If I were to respond in...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: But that came from a hospital manager.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I agree. I have been saying for some time that, if we want to solve the problems in our emergency departments and acute hospitals, we need to look at the community, step-down, convalescent and rehabilitation beds. I move to a second issue and two related issues. I am seeking information. Page 11 of the document refers to agency savings. No matter how many times I ask this question, I...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: Okay. It says here the savings were made but my understanding is that, for 2021, the spend was in the region of about €500 million. Can we get that briefing note this time? It is reasonable for us to know how much money we are outsourcing. Can I ask for a bit more information as well? I have asked this in parliamentary questions and we never get the answer. We get thrown from...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: Everything, and it can be broken down. It would be great if the Minister could provide me with that. It would be what I would have asked for several times through parliamentary questions and I was not able to get it.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: My third question is one on which I asked the clerk for clarity. We had a very lengthy discussion about waiting lists with the Department and the HSE some weeks ago. They were here to discuss waiting lists. I agreed that reducing the length of time people are waiting is the most important thing. I know that has reduced and I acknowledged that. That is great. However, I asked a simple...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: We might not know whether there are people who are on waiting lists who should not be, but there are still waiting lists, so let us just list them all. There may be issues within that whereby people might be on it twice or there might be duplication, but there is a validation process which we know is working and is underway. The Minister's response is not really an answer. I want to know...

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: I will give the Minister one example, if I can.

Select Committee on Health: Estimates for Public Service 2022
Vote 38 - Health (Supplementary) (Resumed)
(6 Dec 2022)

David Cullinane: In the absence of that, can we get what the Minister has?

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