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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I welcome members and those viewers who may be watching the proceedings on Oireachtas TV to the public session of the Joint Committee on Children and Youth Affairs. The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the non-publication of the operational review report on the Oberstown Children Detention Campus. In the first session today, the committee will hear from the authors of the report,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Thank you, Professor Goldson, for your opening statement. I wish to put some quick questions in advance of Deputy Rabbitte making her contribution. For context, is it your belief or understanding from the terms of reference in the contract you have with Oberstown, Professor Hardwick, that as a contractual term the report should be published?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Have you been paid for your work?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Have you been paid in full for your work?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Thank you, Professor Hardwick. That was exactly the answer I was looking for to a question I had not asked. You have made your position clear in respect of straying into matters of policy and your interpretation of the terms of reference provided. Do you have an understanding of the difficulty that presents in terms of what the Minister said to us in December with regard to straying from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Is it Professor Hardwick's view that to cite the report straying into matters of public policy is not relevant to the context in which the report was based and actually adds to the thrust of the report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: The committee has made that position very clear from the get-go. In fact, we had a lengthy discussion about it already. I appreciate the professor adding more context to the opening statement. I call Deputy Rabbitte and then Deputy Mitchell.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I will call Senator Warfield first and then Deputy Clare Daly in the context of the membership of the committee.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I find it extraordinary that the organisation went out to tender and found two suitable experts to conduct a review of the operation of the facility, that those two individuals went through the process of completing a review of that facility, and then there was a refusal to inform the authors of the report of the nature of the difficulties that the report has strayed into. It is quite...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: That is putting it mildly. Before calling on Deputy Clare Daly to make her contribution to the committee, I seek a further clarification. The board has stated that it believes that fair procedures were not applied during the process of compiling the report yet I understand that the witnesses were not permitted to follow up matters with individuals cited in the report. Have I interpreted...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I call Deputy Clare Daly and she is very welcome.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I do not want to stray into matters that are ongoing, so we need to be careful there.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: That is understood. I will ask one question before I allow Deputy Sherlock come in. Have the witnesses had any contact with members of staff since the report was sent to the board of Oberstown? Have there been follow-up discussions and so on?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: That is fine. I call Deputy Sherlock to be followed by Senator Warfield.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: There is a small difference in that Professor Hardwick was performing a statutory function then but not in this case.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Are there any follow-up questions from members?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: Deputy Mitchell mentioned at the outset the abstract nature of the recommendations as a separate entity from the body of the report which provides the detail. As we have expressed at previous meetings on this subject, it is very difficult for us to do our job in terms of oversight of both the Department and Oberstown without seeing the nature of the difficulties at the campus.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I think it is important to put on the record for anybody who might be watching these proceedings that the legal advice with regard to the report cost the Exchequer €26,000, which exceeds the total cost of the report by €10,000. We are now talking about €40,000 worth of product, which has not been provided to the public. It is perfectly justifiable for Oireachtas Members...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I thank Professors Goldson and Hardwick for their contributions this morning. As stated by Deputy Chambers, those contributions have been absolutely forthright and beneficial to our consideration. It would be unsurprising for the delegates to hear we believe the non-publication of their report stands in the way of our performance of our function of oversight of the Oberstown campus. Given...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Alan Farrell: I advise members again that while there have been reports in the media on the operational review report, the committee cannot discuss individual cases and should avoid naming individuals, whether their names are in the public domain or not. Members should not discuss anything which is or likely to be the subject of legal proceedings. They are reminded that there are ongoing legal...

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