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Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: The limits are set by yourselves.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: What limit is it up to?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: So there is no chain of command where you set a limit. Say, with the OPW, and, in fairness, we could even talk about the bike shed in this context if we wanted to if we are talking about the OPW, who would ultimately sanction the sign-off there or does it become very arbitrary?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: So, say the lands at Castletown House, which has ultimately cost the State a lot of money since.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: The Department did not provide sanction in time, it then went to public bidding and we failed to buy it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: When it was too late. No, that is fine. I just want to move something else. A lot of money has been spent on IPAS centres in the State over the past couple of years, has it not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: I have heard numbers like €4.3 billion. Is this correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: We hear numbers like it. Who would have oversight on those? Is that the individual Department or would Mr. Moloney's Department have a role in the individual spending there? I know it will probably come up later and I just want to find out now when we are asking the Department questions. I would just like to clarify now what role Mr. Moloney's Department plays in this regard, because it...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: Yes, because it was all set up under the previous Department, which I think was Deputy Roderic O'Gorman's Department. What sort of procurement is there? This ties in with the issue of procurement we will be talking about later. How are individual sites procured and how was it ensured that the Department of children was acting under compliance if the Department of public expenditure was...

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: I can use another example in my area if I want. A house was bought and used. Who would have sanctioned that we use that? Would it have been the Department of public expenditure that sanctioned the spending on it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: We can talk about needs, but your role is not about needs but about actual procurement and setting rules. It is about the provision of formal sanction, oversight and control and setting the general accounting policies. It is not necessarily about where needs are.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: Your job cannot be woolly if it is about spending.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: That is where mistakes can be made too, though. Is that not correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: You do not have to do anything. The decision is made. There are policies and strategies-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: -----and, ultimately, mistakes can be made. This is where we end up in a situation here. Just to clarify the role of the Department of public expenditure is that it sanctions the spending of the €4.3 billion. Does it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: Okay. Would you have a role in setting different fees per night or would that be done by the other Departments?

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: You have no role in that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: But you do have a role in how much you give to them.

Public Accounts Committee: 2023 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of the Government Chief Information Officer
Chapter 3 - Vote accounting and budget management
(10 Jul 2025)

Joe Neville: Okay. Turning to NGO expenditure, does the Department have oversight of it and of individual NGOs where funding is given to individual groups by different Departments?

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